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Old 23rd September 2004, 11:42   #16
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FE is the most important aspect considered while buying a car since everyone wants to make the most of every drop of fuel [or money] he puts into it. Petrol/Diesel prices have almost doubled in the last 10 years. And thats the main reason that all mnufacturers are now turning towards more fuel efficient cars.
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Old 23rd September 2004, 11:45   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (GTO @ Sep. 22 2004,14:53)]Indians behave as if the fuel economy is the most expensive part of owning a car!! [b]Wake up, its depreciation that is. Not fuel economy. In some cases its maintenance costing, not fuel economy. As a component of total ownership cost, fuel economy is only one.
I agree in principle with your argument.

But you have to accept the fact that fuel expenses (in India) account for almost 100% of the price of the car (when new) over the life of the car (and it's rising by the day).

Lots of assumptions here:

0) The car runs on Petrol
1) A car's life is 10 Years
2) approx 1500 - 2000 Kms per month
3) Maintenance is a fraction of the total cost over the 10 Year period (barring accidents and major failures which in any case are a matter of chance and the liabilities could be higher)
4) Other costs like Insurance, parking, fines etc. also do not constitute more than 5 - 10 % of the total cost.

This means that a 5 Lac car -> ~ 5 Lacs for fuel in 10 Years etc... give or take 10%

What do you guys think?
- mvk
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Old 23rd September 2004, 13:44   #18
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GreenHex, i think your calculation assumes that the price of fuel is constant.
I guess if you buy a petrol car for around 5 lacks now, you would probably be spending the equivalent of the cost of your car within 5-6 years.
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Old 23rd September 2004, 19:31   #19
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GreenHex, I totally agree. Buttttttttttttttt:

My only point is - In addition to fuel economy, importance must be given to other factors such as safety, ride quality and so on. You hear of these only C segment upward but very rarely in the B segment. C'mon, is good FE the only thing that will make a B segmenter happy? (I can see everyone nodding their heads in agreement)

I actually smile when I hear of Indica owners buying the car only for the diesel engine and its fuel economy in the city. Because they have also sub-consciously bought a much safer car...with more room...and one that can handle potholes better than some of its competitors. I think that the Indica is one of the most sensible buys in the B segment!

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Old 23rd September 2004, 20:32   #20
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What the carmaker thinks:

"The typical Indian consumer looks for value and does not mind paying a little more for it. Fuel efficiency, airconditioning and reliability along with ease of service and low cost of ownership are major considerations during the purchase process in India."

Source: An interview with Amit Dutta, Vice-president and General Manager, General Motors India.
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Old 23rd September 2004, 21:12   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ] Fuel efficiency, airconditioning and reliability along with ease of service
Notice the component thats mentioned as the absolute first!!

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Old 23rd September 2004, 22:01   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (GTO @ Sep. 23 2004,19:42)]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ] Fuel efficiency, airconditioning and reliability along with ease of service
Notice the component thats mentioned as the absolute first!!

GTO
Heheheheh, any which way you look at it, huh GTO?
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Old 24th September 2004, 01:33   #23
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Hey GTO,
That was great.u really seem to be pissed off by these people who are obsessed with only FE.
Hehe
But I do feel that FE plays a very important part in selecting a car.since fuel is so expensive here in India,a car is definitely a luxury item for most of us,unlike in other western or the gulf countries where itís a necessity.
Here even the cheapest car like the M800 is out of reach of most of our country men.
U r right in saying that more attention has to be paid on other things,but then if we get a tank like car which is very safe but wud be very thirsty for fuel ,I donít think it would be affordable.for everyone of us to drive the same cars that we drive today.

We being enthusiasts are always more concerned abt the handling,power and other technical aspects.
We may say that we do not care a damn abt FE(even I say that),but donít all of us really feel good when our cars give better FE figures.

Also with our bad road conditions ,the fuel consumption will increase .sometimes when driving over long distances ,the FE does play a big factor in either taking a car or some other means ..so it wud be more wise for such to get a car which will be more fuel efficient but maybe a little low in terms of safety,comfort.
Also the logic behind maruti coming out with 155 tires cud be that ,at the time that it was launched there may not many good roads where one could really go fast .and with our potholes ,having wider tires with lower profiles would have made it more uncomfortable.
Also it has always been said that wider tires reduce FE,so maybe maruti did not want to have wider tires than others. .
It is only now after the Golden Quadrilateral project that more emphasis is laid on these things.
I donít know about others ,but when it comes to spending my hard earned money on a car ,definitely FE will be of utmost importance and then, the ease of servicing and reasale value would be considered .safety can take a little backseat as I think we should not be thinking of what would happen in an accident.if we drive safely within the limitations of our vehicle then definitely accidents can be avoided most of the times.

Like GTO has said,u really feel like punching those who drive a Mondeo or Accord with a light foot on an empty stretch .
This happens also in bikes.there are people who buy 125cc bikes saying its more efficient,without caring about the way it handles. ,but then they ride it as if its a sports bike.a 125cc bike driven at 80-90kph will giver poorer FE figures than a 150cc bike doing the same speeds.


But I do feel that atleast a tacho,rear seat belts ,wider165tires,ventilated discs(drum brakes shud be phased out) all round,100/90 headlamps and ABS should be provided by default on each and every car .At present,even if these are present ,its as if the car maker is doing a favour by providing us with these.maybe thatís why as we have to pay a premium for these extra features ,some of us may rethink on these.
.it is only now after itís been made compulsory ,that rear seat belts are being provided.
Airbags are not at all required atleast now,as they can be real nuisance .
Also of what use is the airbag if ur driver has it and u having paid for all this do not have one.
It is difficult to change this mindset immediately ,but with our improving conditions maybe oneday,we would all be more interested in everything else other than FE.but till our roads and other things improve,FE definitely rules among most of us.

Waiting for that to happen soon.

Speedsatya.
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Old 24th September 2004, 14:29   #24
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I have had thoughts about the same many times. And to me, its more from the background that India is a
developing country with not much value to human lives. We are now moving towards being a developed
nation with greater speed but It has graduated from bullockcarts/ambys/fiats/marutis and only now
international brands are there. Imagine the era where even retread tyres were a boom and not many ppl
were keen enough for a new one. Reason: Its economical and would stay as long as the new one.
and...............what.........safety ?......... what is that?
Now we talk of having tubeless.

Quote : I have seen people who drive their Mondeos and City Vtecs with an extremely light foot just to get that 10% more fuel economy!! Whats the point? Forget such performance cars. I have also witnessed Zen MPFi owners never going above 1500 rpm to get the maximum mileage. Thats a great car to drive too. Why dont you just go and buy a diesel instead if thats all you care about?

Not really, as it is a matter of personal opinion. I have had different feedbacks from ppl. Not everyone buys the car for the enthusiastic driving regardless of what their car is capable of. Many even dont know what their cars limitations are. More of a status symbol to some ppl and want that it should be with them as long as possible. For some they might have overstretched their budget to go for that better equipped car and are very cautious in driving. Different backgrounds , different needs, so different mindsets. You really cannot expect everyone to be on similar lines.

Quote : Buttttttttttttttt really well-engineered, safer and more modern cars are being side lined by the Indian consumer because it gives you 10 - 15% less fuel economy.

Exactly.
I agree that focus is tilted more on savings as much as you can and compromising towards quality.
Even people who have opted for CNG conversion are looking for kits which are available cheaper in market
but is not upto the minimum safety levels. Result : Mobile bombs.
So its more the awareness and quality approach which needs to be there. FE is one factor but not the only factor. Look for a balanced choice.

Don't blame ppl as many dont know what they are upto, educate them, give them time . But dont expect
them to learn overnite. And theres no perfect world that exists as priorities are different. It might take bit
long, but the results would be there. Thats where Team-bhp helps !

Tarun
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Old 24th September 2004, 15:07   #25
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GtO , Agree with u totally

But the reason today ppl want fuel efficient cars is also that these cars have a better resale.Also FE cars are known to have lesser problems on the mechanical front.
For example the Palio 1.6/1.2 ( second hand) is cheaper than a Zen VXi, the Zen having an edge only on the FE front.

The Zen also has a better resale than th santro by abt 15000 in the bombay market , cox the Zen is a bit ore FE than the santro.

Whats the seeling point of the NHC , they have done the marketing in such a way the car is most FE in the entire world. An d being a Honda , ppl blindly trusted them . Despite of not being a good looking car, it sells like hell.

Even today ppl buy a Esteem coz they think , its powerful and is the most FE in its category, which it is , ppl simply compromise on the ride quality quality in this case.

The corsa sail inspite of its compititive price tag, and offering much more than what the compitition offers, does not sell coz its not as FE as the santro or the wagonR, or the Zen

Imagine the following cars are available at a flat 2.25 to 2.50 lak bracket

1. 2000 ikon 1.6 ZXI
2. 2000 Corsa 1.4/ 1.6
3. 2000 baleno
4. 2000 Esteem VX
5. 2000 VXI for 2.25-2.30 laks
6. 2000 WagonR VXI 2.25-2.30 laks
7. palio 1.6 2001 2.15 laks----------------a steal deal for performance oriented ppl

despite these prices, ppl still buy the Zen / wagonR as they want FE and to a certain extent low maintainance.

Also in the period 1998 -2002 ppl bought the City over the Lancer as the city was known to be more FE,( nobody thought that the lancer was more stable, had a better backseat, was equally smart looking as the city)
And please note that nobody ( ordinary common man) knew abt the city speed perfermance at that time.

R
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Old 25th September 2004, 22:55   #26
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FE is the most important thing when any1 buys a car.
I do not want to detail in that,as everything is been said by the fellow-bhpians......and they were on the mark.

Instead i wud like to elaborate on a few other things goin a little off-topic.......

The most simplistic reason being that maximum of our Indian population are satisfying just thier basic needs.IMO only 30% of the population have the money to spend whole-heartedly.
People frequenting places like Indigo are less compared to those who prefer Chowpatty or junk stuff....

Indians are still money-minded people saving for the future.
When in the west people live for today........

That makes a helluva difference.And thats never gonna change.......
Peace-out!
Cya.



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Old 27th September 2004, 04:49   #27
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Moved to Best threads

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Old 27th September 2004, 05:56   #28
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Bhai petrol sub kuch hai , average and only average ( As if I care im in for the POWER )
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Old 1st October 2004, 16:29   #29
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mst ppl in this country have it wrong. the best FE comes at shifting at right RPMs. and consistency - which is difficult on india roads. therefore most cars will give the 12/14 kmpl hwys and vary b/w 7-10 in the city. the modern car ECU responds to consistency in averaging the flow of gas - of course there is more electronic sensors that contribute. and especially a problem with drivers who switch to high perf european cars (from korean/japs) as they tend to maintain in low gear when its way past the shift time upsetting the FE. so in a mdern car, drive with consistency and learn to drive viewing the RPM not the speedo. In Palio 1.6 the optimal up/down shift with normal filter is 2000-2550 RPM and with K&N filter around 1500-2000 RPM without stressing the car. cheerz
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Old 17th June 2005, 16:27   #30
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Any comments the more recent members may have on this?

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