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Old 23rd February 2012, 12:19   #721
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Originally Posted by searchingheaven View Post
Most over rated cars

4. Chevy Tavera
5. Maruti Grand Vitara

For the above 2 cars, give me one reason why one should buy these cars over any other car in its class. The Maruti was a piece of crap, and the tavera more so.
Gulp! Did I read this right? You are including Grand Vitara under the most over rated cars. Damn pity I can't use more emoticons.

But it is obvious you know nothing about the car, considering you put it down saying Maruti is a piece of crap. The Suzuki Grand Vitara (yes Suzuki, not Maruti) is a CBU which is made in Japan, Maruti just imports and sells it, doesn't make it.

I actually came to say Suzuki Grand Vitara is the most under rated car in the country. It sells less than 10 each year. All because we live in one country that keeps petrol prices lot higher than diesel. In other countries where petrol is priced below diesel, Grand Vitara does quite well. I own this car for more than 4 years now and the reliability and resilience of this car is just outstanding.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 12:27   #722
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
The SX4, from what I've heard and read, is not very dynamically sound. This can be attributed to the tall-boy stance that results in body-roll. Not sure about its brakes, but an acquaintance who owns one has said that it could be better. Build-quality could have been better too.

But in many ways, it's the perfect sedan for India.The high ground-clearance allows you to glide over rough roads, right past the Civic that's crawling over a pot-hole.

I don't think it's an underrated car though. Neither is it overrated.
Suhaas, this is precisely the problem......hearsay.

SX4 having weak brakes!! unless your friend owns the VXI version, all i can say is that he needs to get the car checked ASAP. The SX4 has by far the best brakes I have encountered in any sedan in its category. The ABS with ABD, coupled with the huge footprint of the tyres ensure superb braking.....and I am talking from experience of nearly 45K with this car.

Body roll- Ive heard that the newer VVT SX4s had their suspension softened, so maybe this is true, but the pre VVT SX4 had pretty firm suspension and that resulted in brilliant dynamics, certainly far superior to the ANHC, Verna, Fiesta classic and the Optra- all its competitors.

Build Quality- after 45 K, of which close to 15 K were on Mumbai moonscapes, no rattles, no malfunctions, nothing! (touchwood!)

unfortunately in our country, word of mouth can nuke any multi crore adspends.....such is the pity.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 13:03   #723
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Originally Posted by vb-san
And to add on, I feel this thread is getting a bit pointless.
Agree.

Let's do a thought experiment. Perfect for this thread. A what if experiment. What if the vento, as it is, had a Honda badge and city, as it is, had a vw badge. How wud their sales had been?
Similarly one can think of some other cars as well on similar lines.

As for the vento/city debate, I think the Honda vento wud have left vw city in dust! Would u agree?
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Old 23rd February 2012, 20:53   #724
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
Body roll- Ive heard that the newer VVT SX4s had their suspension softened, so maybe this is true, but the pre VVT SX4 had pretty firm suspension and that resulted in brilliant dynamics, certainly far superior to the ANHC, Verna, Fiesta classic and the Optra- all its competitors.
I agree with everything else, but dynamically better than the Fiesta? That's a bit hard to digest.

Did you know that the Fiesta is by far, the most dynamically sound car under 15 lakhs? The only car that you could compare to it is probably the Skoda Octavia (vRS). Even the Cedia's suspension is not as good and requires a few modifications for it to get anywhere near the Fiesta.

And the Fiesta Classic's dynamics is even better than the the new Fiesta.

The (ANHC) City does feel a bit walloy as you go beyond 120 km/h and doesn't feel completely sure-footed. But it's still pretty sorted, although not as good as the OHC.

The Verna's dynamics need attention and if you regularly drive on the highway, I'd recommend a different aftermarket setup, because of its boat-like handling.

I've driven the Fiesta Classic and the ANHC. The Fiesta is brilliantly sorted and arguably, the best handling car in the sedan-segment. The Fiat Linea comes close.
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Old 24th February 2012, 09:54   #725
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

Optra Magnum TCDI is definitely underrated car.
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Old 24th February 2012, 11:37   #726
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I agree with everything else, but dynamically better than the Fiesta? That's a bit hard to digest.

Did you know that the Fiesta is by far, the most dynamically sound car under 15 lakhs? The only car that you could compare to it is probably the Skoda Octavia (vRS). Even the Cedia's suspension is not as good and requires a few modifications for it to get anywhere near the Fiesta.

And the Fiesta Classic's dynamics is even better than the the new Fiesta.

The (ANHC) City does feel a bit walloy as you go beyond 120 km/h and doesn't feel completely sure-footed. But it's still pretty sorted, although not as good as the OHC.

The Verna's dynamics need attention and if you regularly drive on the highway, I'd recommend a different aftermarket setup, because of its boat-like handling.

I've driven the Fiesta Classic and the ANHC. The Fiesta is brilliantly sorted and arguably, the best handling car in the sedan-segment. The Fiat Linea comes close.
Suhaas, I agree with your views re. the Fiesta Classic partly. there is a popular perception that the fiesta classic is the best handler in its segment, and there is some truth in it. But my statement about the SX4 ZXI out handling a fiesta classic comes from personal expeirence. In another thread i had posted my drive experience up to Amby Valley, and those who are familiar with this drive will vouch for teh lovely uphill bends on this drive. I was in my SX4 and my friend was driving his fiesta 1.6 ZXi, and no matter how hard he tried, he just could not keep up with me. I could easily carry more speed into a corner and accelerate faster out of it thanks to the prodigious grip those massive 205 tyres provide.

However, having said that, i will also agree that the Fiesta 1.6 S will outhandle the SX4 ZXI by a small margin. The aura around the fiesta is on account of the brilliant handling of the 1.6S which is truly a gem, but the lesser versions (with softer suspension and 175 tyres) are no where in the same league. Their handling would be in the same league as the SX4 VXI in all likelihood, since the absence of ABS and EBD in the VXI means that you will brake earlier and carry lesser speeds into the corners, as well as the fact that it has skinnier tyres compared to the ZXi.

Just my own experience, of course others may have a different view.

Last edited by himanshugoswami : 24th February 2012 at 11:38.
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Old 24th February 2012, 12:45   #727
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relativity
I am talking purely out of ignorance.
Swift(s) me be considered over hyped because:
1. They are not fun to drive (Read Punto, Polo 1.6, Honda Jazz etc.)
4. waiting period is due to trouble at the plant. Not necessarily due to demand
5. Herd mentality
6. Resale value
+1 to your starting line in bold. Indeed your ignorance shows in the points quoted above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnair
I have often felt that the media is responsible for killing some wonderful products. A very simple example, When the Ford Fusion came out, it was literally crushed by the media. Same in the case of the Optra SRV. And when Honda came out with Jazz....
No media can kill a good car - good in all the parameters that the target market segment gives importance to. And the examples you pointed out died due to this reason, not due to the media. They were ahead of the time when the market was not receptive to a costly hatch. We thought Ford learnt from the Fusion debacle when they priced the Figo well and reaped the rewards. Then they think they can play with the consumer and price the new Fiesta out of reach - so do we blame the media here for the Fiesta not selling or the "brainy" folks at Ford ?

P.S.: I guess people are confusing hi-selling with over-rated and low-selling with under-rated.
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Old 24th February 2012, 16:34   #728
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
I was in my SX4 and my friend was driving his fiesta 1.6 ZXi, and no matter how hard he tried, he just could not keep up with me. I could easily carry more speed into a corner and accelerate faster out of it thanks to the prodigious grip those massive 205 tyres provide....

...However, having said that, i will also agree that the Fiesta 1.6 S will outhandle the SX4 ZXI by a small margin. The aura around the fiesta is on account of the brilliant handling of the 1.6S which is truly a gem, but the lesser versions (with softer suspension and 175 tyres) are no where in the same league. Their handling would be in the same league as the SX4 VXI in all likelihood, since the absence of ABS and EBD in the VXI means that you will brake earlier and carry lesser speeds into the corners, as well as the fact that it has skinnier tyres compared to the ZXi.
You're right.

The newer SX4s are not the best handlers. Now I haven't driven the SX4, but I know what a tall car feels like around the bends, hence my statements. That said, the 205 section tyres on the SX4 give it immense grip, and the 16" wheels were the biggest stock size on sedans, when the SX4 was launched, and probably still is?!

The regular run-on-the-mill Fiesta, in the hands of a skillful driver can keep up with the SX4 largely because it doesn't have as much grip and is not that sure-footed either, but the 1.6S should out-run it, I believe. Ford could not carry-forward that element into the new Fiesta which is disappointing. It's still very good nevertheless.
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Old 24th February 2012, 17:29   #729
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
That said, the 205 section tyres on the SX4 give it immense grip, and the 16" wheels were the biggest stock size on sedans, when the SX4 was launched, and probably still is?!
Suhaas, the Linea T-Jet+ came with the 16" wheels (205/65). And now Linea MJD 2012 also features the same 16 inchers.
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Old 25th February 2012, 02:01   #730
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

O.T.
Maruti indeed is one crazy company.
A car like Swift DDiS comes with 14 inch 165 section tyres for L/V models whereas SX4 1.6 is shodded with 16 inch 205 tyres.
See the difference !
Agreed they belong to different segments but I sincerely feel Swift/dzire/ritz (diesel models in particular)are grossly undertyred for their lower models while 205 section is bit strange for a SX4 IMO.

There should be better Standardisation at Maruti when it comes to tyres configuration.
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Old 25th February 2012, 02:20   #731
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
Suhaas, the Linea T-Jet+ came with the 16" wheels (205/65). And now Linea MJD 2012 also features the same 16 inchers.
And that's why I'd said "when the SX4 was launched" and "and probably still is?" as I wasn't completely sure. I am aware of the Linea's 16" wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post
O.T.
Maruti indeed is one crazy company.
A car like Swift DDiS comes with 14 inch 165 section tyres for L/V models whereas SX4 1.6 is shodded with 16 inch 205 tyres.
See the difference !
Agreed they belong to different segments but I sincerely feel Swift/dzire/ritz (diesel models in particular)are grossly undertyred for their lower models while 205 section is bit strange for a SX4 IMO.

There should be better Standardisation at Maruti when it comes to tyres configuration.
I agree. The Swift is grossly under-tyred. The narrow 165 sections don't do justice to the dynamic-ability of this car. But Maruti had done so, citing reasons such as fuel-efficiency.

The SX4 sedan is actually based on a mini-crossover. It's sold as the Suzuki SX4 only in hatch-form in some markets. It's also sold as the Fiat Cedici. Both are equipped with 4x4 and are designed to handle rough and broken roads. Hence the absurdly large tyres/wheels.
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Old 25th February 2012, 02:49   #732
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I agree. The Swift is grossly under-tyred. The narrow 165 sections don't do justice to the dynamic-ability of this car. But Maruti had done so, citing reasons such as fuel-efficiency.

The SX4 sedan is actually based on a mini-crossover. It's sold as the Suzuki SX4 only in hatch-form in some markets. It's also sold as the Fiat Cedici. Both are equipped with 4x4 and are designed to handle rough and broken roads. Hence the absurdly large tyres/wheels.
How much is the difference in fuel economy of the Z and V/L variants of dzire/swift?
Barely 1 kmpl ?
Infact I don't even know the difference
This IMHO is just a form of brutal cost cutting and nothing else.
People won't mind some drop in economy for added road grip but yes chances of people going aftermarket for better rubber is limited. Its the manufacturer which needs to be little more responsible towards the kind of issues that is directly related to safety.

For the SX4 part, I agree : The crossover legacy led to such huge tyre configuration.
But for a sedan (that is not a 4x4) and already a fuel sipper (in the petrol avataar) ,such wide tyres are bit overkill unless you are an enthusiast.
Anyway I am not complaining for SX4
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Old 25th February 2012, 06:21   #733
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I guess people are confusing hi-selling with over-rated and low-selling with under-rated.
Well I agree but would say for me a car is overrated if it sells, not because of its merits but because of its Brand. Alto is prime example, if it were a Tata Alto or Hyundai Alto for same price, would it still sell as much?

Similarly a car would be underrated if it doesnt sell as much, not because of what it does/doesnt offer, but because of its Brand. A clearly good example is Linea, it would have been a best seller in the hands of Honda or Toyota. Similarly the Grand Vitara! A Honda GV, for its present price, would have been killer! It just got killed because it was a Maruti.

My premise is, if a car is to be rated, it should sell regardless of its Brand. But that will not be the case practically, hence we can find out if its overrated/underrated if the car is selling/not selling because of its own merits or if there are external influences that affect selling of a particular car. It does not matter if a car is selling in very high numbers. It can still be overrated!!!

Last edited by joslicx : 25th February 2012 at 06:23.
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Old 25th February 2012, 07:28   #734
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Well I agree but would say for me a car is overrated if it sells, not because of its merits but because of its Brand. Alto is prime example, if it were a Tata Alto or Hyundai Alto for same price, would it still sell as much?
Similarly a car would be underrated if it doesnt sell as much, not because of what it does/doesnt offer, but because of its Brand. A clearly good example is Linea, it would have been a best seller in the hands of Honda or Toyota. Similarly the Grand Vitara! A Honda GV, for its present price, would have been killer! It just got killed because it was a Maruti.
To an extent yes, the brand sells – especially if the badging is of a Suzuki or a Hyundai. But what’s noteworthy is, expensive cars from these brands hardly make an impact.

Back to the topic, I do feel that the Vitara is a highly underrated car. Even with the shortcomings of being a CBU and petrol option only, it does not deserve the current low numbers.

Linea in my opinion is not an underrated car. It is very well rated by many, but staying away due to various factors like dealership experience to AS&S related fears.
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Old 27th February 2012, 00:52   #735
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Default Re: The most over & under rated car in India

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
+1 to your starting line in bold. Indeed your ignorance shows in the points quoted above.

No media can kill a good car - good in all the parameters that the target market segment gives importance to. And the examples you pointed out died due to this reason, not due to the media. They were ahead of the time when the market was not receptive to a costly hatch. We thought Ford learnt from the Fusion debacle when they priced the Figo well and reaped the rewards. Then they think they can play with the consumer and price the new Fiesta out of reach - so do we blame the media here for the Fiesta not selling or the "brainy" folks at Ford ?

P.S.: I guess people are confusing hi-selling with over-rated and low-selling with under-rated.
Being ahead of its time is a curse? I mean when a car is outdated also its the company's fault and when a car is futuristic also its wrong! The figo is nothing but an outdated european fiesta. As a result, the body panels, jigs, powertrain etc. need no development and they can price it cheap. Can ford release the new fiesta hatch at the same price range? When they brought in the fusion, it was a current top seller in Europe. And to be fair, it was huge, had a 100 bhp 1.6l engine and overall a decent package at around 7-7.5lac ex showroom. And if you realise, ford has been dishing out all generations of fiesta with different names starting with ikon to the current new fiesta sedan.
So nothing surprising about figo pricing. coming back to being overrated and underrated, I guess overrated meant a car not being as good as it is claimed to be or being hyped much more than its due and vice-versa for underrated. Nothing to do with "branding" i hope!
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