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Old 17th May 2012, 19:14   #1726
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I think you should take the picture from the other side of the window for us to be able to comment. The visibility is for the cops from outside.
Well, for that there should be no roof! That's stopping all the light.

Just see in the first picture that you can see the number plate of the car in front clearly through the front window (which is 70% MIN + 70% V-Kool mathematically should be 49% VLT) and the windscreen which is 75% MIN VLT.
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Old 17th May 2012, 19:29   #1727
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

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Originally Posted by icecoolsam View Post
The date has been moved to 5th June now, check out BTP face page and I feel like a moron for removing my 4k worth 3m today.
Please could you put up the excerpt here from the BTP FB page?
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Old 17th May 2012, 19:29   #1728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecoolsam

The date has been moved to 5th June now, check out BTP face page and I feel like a moron for removing my 4k worth 3m today.
Are you talking about this thread?

Name:  ForumRunner_20120517_192540.png
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But after an hour later BTP said this.

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Edit: I am still on wait and watch mode with my 3 weeks old v-cools which costed me 30k.

Last edited by Chuchan : 17th May 2012 at 19:33.
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Old 17th May 2012, 19:46   #1729
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

There are three properties of glass, wrt to light - VLA, VLR and VLT. VLA is visible light absorbed, R is reflected and T is transmitted. These are measured in percentages and the three will add upto 100%

Automotive tempered glass, which is used for automobile rear windshield and side glasses as manufactured, usually have 5% VLA, 5% VLR and 90% VLT. As per CMV rule 100(2), the VLT needs to be 70% or more for rear and front windshields, and needs to be 50% or more for side windows. This specification is for manufacturers of the glass itself and for the direction of the car manufacturers to procure and fit compliant glass in automobiles.

While theoretically applying 70% VLT film on 90% VLT side window would result in 63% VLT, which is more than the prescribed 50%, the learned judges of SC have ruled it illegal, as the CMV rule does not provide for any after market alteration of VLT by the owners of the automobiles.

In view of this, I do not believe it is prudent to question the SC ruling. However, this ruling does open a pandora's box:

1. If application of any type of film to alter VLT is not provided for, then isn't permission to manufacture such films illegal?
2. Isn't the department that is responsible for granting such manufacturing permissions responsible for granting such permissions?
3. So, what in the world is RTO approved film?
4. How can the RTO so negligently approve of a device, that breaks the very law they are expected to enforce?

The VLT percentages are to ensure clear visiblity for the driver, not OF the driver / passengers. When manufacture / storage / unlawful possession of a variety of goods that are illegal are criminal offenses, then how could the government be so callous in granting permissions for manufacture and then also approve the same?

Rajan
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Old 17th May 2012, 19:56   #1730
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Chennai traffic police have come out with an official post saying the SC order will be implemented. People will be fined and films removed. Can we atleast keep the strip of film which comes at the top of the windshield in front?
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Old 17th May 2012, 19:58   #1731
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

There is a statement on the Chennai Traffic Police page that hints that they are only going to remove dark tints?

http://www.facebook.com/#!/chennaitrafficpolice

Can someone decode it?

Quote:
The manufacturer of the vehicle may manufacture the vehicles with tinted glasses which have Visual Light Transmission (VLT) of safety glasses windscreen (front and rear) as 70 per cent VLT and side glasses as 40 per cent VLT, respectively. No dark film or any other material can be pasted on the wind screens and side glasses of a vehicle”

In obeisance to the orders of Supreme Court Traffic Police Chennai request all the vehicle users who have dark film pasted in their vehicle to remove them at once and adhere the instructions.

The Traffic Police Chennai will enforce the order of Supreme Court. The competent officials in the Traffic Police will challan such vehicles for violating the rule of 92 and 100 and there upon shall also remove the dark film from the offending vehicles for such offence the fine amount shall be of Rs 100/- for the first time offence and Rs 300/- for the second time offence
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Old 17th May 2012, 20:00   #1732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchan

Are you talking about this thread?

But after an hour later BTP said this.

Edit: I am still on wait and watch mode with my 3 weeks old v-cools which costed me 30k.
Yes and I am sorry if they have changed their stand in subsequent posts. Today morning same news came in some local news channels ,just browse BTP Facebook page . I think more clarity might come by tomorrow.
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Old 17th May 2012, 20:13   #1733
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

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Originally Posted by cuboid View Post
OT : Rulings/Judgements of a court are NOT law. They are interpretations of the law. A law can ONLY be made in the Parliament or Legislative assembly.
thanks for correcting, yes I was wrong, no court can make a law
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Old 17th May 2012, 20:17   #1734
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by bottle View Post
There is a statement on the Chennai Traffic Police page that hints that they are only going to remove dark tints?

http://www.facebook.com/#!/chennaitrafficpolice

Can someone decode it?
It's fairly self-explanatory. ANY and ALL film on cars are illegal regardless of VLT. The only confusion is that your post says 40% VLT is permitted on manufacturer-provided tinted glass whereas the original ruling I believe mentioned 50% VLT.
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Old 17th May 2012, 20:22   #1735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottle View Post
There is a statement on the Chennai Traffic Police page that hints that they are only going to remove dark tints?

Can someone decode it?

Let me try:

Quote:
The Traffic Police Chennai will enforce the order of Supreme Court.
OK. That is easy enough

Quote:
The competent officials in the Traffic Police will challan such vehicles for violating the rule of 92 and 100 and there upon shall also remove the dark film from the offending vehicles
Not too hard, I guess

Quote:
for such offence the fine amount shall be of Rs 100/- for the first time offence and Rs 300/- for the second time offence
Now that is complicated. Are they planning on putting the films back, after removing them? First time - Rs.100, remove film - sounds doable.

Second time - HOW? Are they expecting people to drive straight to a shop and put the films back by spending another 5K?

Rajan

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
It's fairly self-explanatory. ANY and ALL film on cars are illegal regardless of VLT. The only confusion is that your post says 40% VLT is permitted on manufacturer-provided tinted glass whereas the original ruling I believe mentioned 50% VLT.
No Sir. Bottle is right. CMV rule says 50%. SC ruling says:
Quote:
26. The manufacturer of the vehicle may manufacture the vehicles with tinted glasses which have Visual Light Transmission (VLT) of safety glasses windscreen (front and rear) as 70 per cent VLT and side glasses as 40 per cent VLT,respectively.
Rajan

Last edited by noopster : 17th May 2012 at 20:32. Reason: Merged back to back posts
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Old 17th May 2012, 20:34   #1736
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

I am sorry to use very strong words but this is a big joke. Why not ban alcohol, because alcohol causes drunken driving and bigger risk for accident, why will they not ban it! because its a huge money spinner.

Will you ban all lodges and hotels, because some are used as brothels ?

I have seen this time and again, that judges sometimes are incompetent when technical matters like these come up (PS: I am not commenting on the judges who gave the judgement).

Especially when it comes to cyber crime, even judges in US did not know the technicality involved in several cases, and interpreted the law differently.

If only the other problems in our country were solved this fast. There are so many undertrials in prisons who are innocent, but still they are in Jail.

With petrol prices shooting through the roof, this was another completely necessary rule to brought in (pun intended)

And I am really sure this country will only go from bad to worse, and just to quote, if it was not for the IT and BPO industry (Its only these which put the country on the world map), we would still be known as a country of snake charmers riding on elephants..

Now coming to the actual judgement, it says you cannot stick something with 70% and 50% VLT. But you can have tinted glass which has the same colored film sandwiched between 2 layers of glass to provide the tint.

So will tinted glass not impair the visibility ? If this was the rule then all the automanufactures are obliged to retro fit the glasses for all of us, since they did not obey the MV Act in the first place. The automakers should be penalised first than the common man.

I also believe that laws need to evolve with time, when MV act came out in 1988, the climatic condition was totally different, and now it has changed.

Last edited by sammycoolster : 17th May 2012 at 20:38.
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Old 17th May 2012, 20:51   #1737
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

There is an article in Chennai newspaper that sun film ban woud be enforced from Monday. I am grounding my car for sure.
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Old 17th May 2012, 20:53   #1738
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
the learned judges of SC have ruled it illegal, as the CMV rule does not provide for any after market alteration of VLT by the owners of the automobiles.

In view of this, I do not believe it is prudent to question the SC ruling.
I appreciate you looking up all the technical terms and pin pointing the responsibility of the RTO and the manufacturers, but I disagree on two points:

1. I do not understand, why are you determined to give a clean chit to the SC judges! The motor vehicle act defines the limits of certain things and its whole purpose is to be either restrictive in nature or provide a minimum list of requirements, it is not sensible to expect a law to provide for after market or any alteration/ add-on for that matter. The purpose of the law is to set the limits and for things or terms which are not expressly covered by law are to be interpreted in line with the objective of the law. There are a lot of things that you do while operating a vehicle or to the vehicle which are not exactly provided for in the law, so far it does not contravene any of the principles of the said law, there is no restriction.

2. 70% MIN Transparency (of the glass) X 70% VLT (of the film) theoretically make 49%, which is not legal. But have you tested it practically? When 2 surfaces are joined together the VLR of the second surface will not be as high as if it was the only surface and hence increasing the VLT. My point is, please test using a lux meter (available on ebay.in for 1-2k) how far the theoretical calculation holds true.

Last edited by SLK : 17th May 2012 at 20:56.
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Old 17th May 2012, 21:15   #1739
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
1. I do not understand, why are you determined to give a clean chit to the SC judges!
No Sir. I disagree. I am not in agreement with the ruling, but I respect the SC as an institution and will abide by the ruling nevertheless. I will also not question the ability or the knowledge of the judges in giving this ruling, as I would expect them to excercise due diligence before handing out a ruling that would affect millions of Indians. While the constitution 19(1) talks about freedom of speech, I am wary of 19(2), which imposes restrictions on this right under specific circumstances.

I would never dare ridicule the learning / judgement of a sitting Apex court Judge in a public forum. I respect his / her position.

Thanks,
Rajan
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Old 17th May 2012, 21:22   #1740
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Default Re: Car tints banned by HC! EDIT: Supreme Court bans all kinds of sunfilms in cars

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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
I would never dare ridicule the learning / judgement of a sitting Apex court Judge in a public forum. I respect his / her position.
I respect your stand and do not intend to disrespect the court myself. But then, if you are afraid to exercise your freedom of speech, please do not post and support the judgment either, just because of that fear!
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