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Old 27th April 2007, 02:18   #16
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Originally Posted by rahul_intlad View Post
You are lucky you spotted a couple ,so far I have just seen one on the road.An unknown brand[skoda]could garner so many customers in India with their diesel engines but not the company[hyundai] everyone is quite familiar with.

So maybe thats the solution call it the Kia Sonata.
To be fair to Hyundai, Skoda also has huge problem pushing Superbs out of the showroom although the Laura has been a big hit. Hyundai has an image problem and the engine itself is no great shakes..not refined and narrow power band. Dosent help that its the only large D seg sedan for 15 odd lakhs.
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Old 27th April 2007, 10:30   #17
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This explains Hyundai's predicament. The new Sonata is a not-so-bad car, but in the buyers minds it simply doesnt register like a Honda or Toyota when it comes to a D segment purchase. Even the soon to be launched Elantra is a decent car but that doesnt guarantee sales in India. This is not the case in more mature markets like the US where Hyundai competes on price, ever improving quality and of late, distinctive designs.[/quote]


I agree totally with you. Sonata is a car that has improved a lot in quality and in the US, in ConsumerReports and JD Power surveys, it ranks higher than Accord, and only marginally lower than even Camry. Even Hyundai quality overall has been improving. But people still remember Hyundai from the days when only college students on a budget bought it. It has also been hit by discount image and alleged lower FE. Sonata and Accent (Verna in India) are presently recommended by ConsumerReports unlike the previous generations. Actual FE of Sonata is 21 mpg as compared with 23 mpg for Accord and Camry. Owner satisfaction with Sonata (based on 10 year average) is also `much better than avge' as compared with excellent for Camry and Accord. In fact, US EPA gives Sonata's FE automatic as 24/33 mpg, as compared with 24/34 mpg for Accord 2.4 auto, and 24/33 mpg for Camry auto. These FE figures are normally put as a sticker at dealers on all cars sold in the US.
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Old 27th April 2007, 10:42   #18
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Consider the actual figures for sales during latest 3 month periods: July-Sep 06, Oct-Dec 06 and Jan-Mar 07 for cars in the 4701-5000 mm segment:

Total sold 1437 (July-Sep 06), 1163 (Oct-Dec 06), 1999 (Jan-Mar 07)
Mercedes 150, 210, 344
Accord 641, 467, 1013
Sonata 71, 145, 219
Camry 376, 168, 254
Superb 199, 173, 169

So while the new Accord has reversed previous declines for Accord, others with exception of Superb, have also gained. It may be fair to say that Sonata diesel is stealing Supreb's sales which have halved in 6 months. Similalrly, cheaper less import intensive Accord is hurting imported Camry which is priced at 22-25 lakhs here, as compared with around US$25000 in US.
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Old 27th April 2007, 10:52   #19
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I was also actively considering a Sonata in Feb/Mar 07. I wanted an automatic and Sonata auto could be had for around 13.5 lakhs, as compared with 12.3 that I paid for Corolla H4. Sonata diesel had no auto so that was out. But why I finally bought the Corolla was perhaps some generic reasons: better FE, better brand name and supposed better reliability. Sonata auto is alleged to give only around 7-8 kmpl. It is a bigger engine so unfair to compare with Corolla, but in terms of price, it is nearer to Corolla than Camry.

Resale does not matter much to me. Another specific reason was its bigger size which could have made parking painful for me (same is the case for other similar cars). Me and my wife like the shape of new Sonata but especially the old Jaguar Sonata, and a 2003 used model can be had for around 6 lakhs in Delhi.
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Old 27th April 2007, 11:04   #20
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I was also actively considering a Sonata in Feb/Mar 07. I wanted an automatic and Sonata auto could be had for around 13.5 lakhs, as compared with 12.3 that I paid for Corolla H4. Sonata diesel had no auto so that was out. But why I finally bought the Corolla was perhaps some generic reasons: better FE, better brand name and supposed better reliability. Sonata auto is alleged to give only around 7-8 kmpl. It is a bigger engine so unfair to compare with Corolla, but in terms of price, it is nearer to Corolla than Camry.

Resale does not matter much to me. Another specific reason was its bigger size which could have made parking painful for me (same is the case for other similar cars). Me and my wife like the shape of new Sonata but especially the old Jaguar Sonata, and a 2003 used model can be had for around 6 lakhs in Delhi.
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Old 27th April 2007, 11:35   #21
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Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
So tadu, time to change the elantra? are we going to be seeing a Petrified Sonata?
No! Too big to freak out in. The Elantra itself it too big to throw around, would not think of getting something even bigger!

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You're right abt that power band. It was further retuned for India to maximize its ~ 150 bhp between an even narrower 2500-3500 rpm with reduced power figures (bad fuel), keeping in mind chaffeur-driven highway cruising. So neither did it have enuf juice for its bulk in city traffic nor for top end acceleration.
You are right about the lack of low end poke, but top end acceleration should be brutal man, as long you dont move it into 6th gear.

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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Tadu, get the ECU, wiring, turbo, injectors, and a few other things, and you will be way over 160 hp.
Now that sounds like a brilliant idea, in fact, was talking about this with our tuner and Scan yesterday night...
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Old 27th April 2007, 11:43   #22
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I was also surprised to see the Sonata-D not taking off, given our affinity for diesel. While Honda is one big factor (Accord and even the Civic could have eaten into Sonata sales) behind this car not taking off, I still expected it to do good given that its a diesel.
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Old 30th April 2007, 19:58   #23
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So, basically even though the car has the perfect recipe for a guaranteed success in our market:

1. Good Looks (albeit a bit inspired!!)
2. Diesel engine
3. Lots of space
4. Good Service Support

It fails because the engine is not refined enough but more importantly because at the price the brand does not have the Snob value which the buyer's also want. And look at the Laura, even though it's inferior to the Sonata in Space/Performance/VFM/A.S.S. and is frankly quite over-priced still sells very well because the Skoda brand is percieved to have more kudos among the public.

Just goes to show that even with the best ingredients in a package you can have a failure on your hands if you don't place/price it right in the market.

Also do you guys think it would sell if it was priced at 12.5L competing with the Octavia/Civic/Corolla while offering the features/size/space of the Accord/Camry?
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Old 30th April 2007, 23:36   #24
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If hyundai drops price now, as they did with petrol one, it wont really sell, unless they go gung ho on advertising and comparing with Corolla/Civic.
I doubt they can sell this for 12.5L without incurring losses.
13.5L ex showroom for the diesel is a decent price. and they can hot 500-600 units a month easily at that price.
I am waiting for them to repeat the same blunder with the new elantra.
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Old 30th April 2007, 23:49   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
Now that sounds like a brilliant idea, in fact, was talking about this with our tuner and Scan yesterday night...
Who do you think told them about it in the first place?
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Old 1st May 2007, 00:30   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Also do you guys think it would sell if it was priced at 12.5L competing with the Octavia/Civic/Corolla while offering the features/size/space of the Accord/Camry?

Sadly, I dont believe it will sell even at that price. Nothing to do with the car really. Its the Indian buyers oft-displayed preference of not wanting an expensive Hyundai.
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Old 1st May 2007, 00:34   #27
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Its really sad that cars like the Embera dont sell only due to snob value, but the car is much better then the Laura in terms of Performance/VFM/A.S.S
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Old 1st May 2007, 10:17   #28
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iraghava, how can you term a car a failure without hard sales numbers? I agree that you wouldnt have seen as Sonatas as the new Accord...but the Accord has been around for almost 4 years now.

I would have expected the Sonata Diesel to click well with the Indian market as it offers pretty much everything that buyers from that segment need (except the snob value). For a change, its a Hyundai that is styled pretty well.

Does anyone have the sales numbers? And the on-road prices vis-a-vis the Laura and Accord?
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Old 1st May 2007, 11:06   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
iraghava, how can you term a car a failure without hard sales numbers? I agree that you wouldnt have seen as Sonatas as the new Accord...but the Accord has been around for almost 4 years now.

I would have expected the Sonata Diesel to click well with the Indian market as it offers pretty much everything that buyers from that segment need (except the snob value). For a change, its a Hyundai that is styled pretty well.

Does anyone have the sales numbers? And the on-road prices vis-a-vis the Laura and Accord?
@GTO
Look at this
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post405787 (Indian Car Sales Figures and Analysis)
Sonata sold 113 units only, which is very low compared to 389 units of accord
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post405212 (Indian Car Sales Figures and Analysis)
These are for March 2007
Only when the april figures come in, it will show the real picture.
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Old 1st May 2007, 11:25   #30
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Quote:
Sonata sold 113 units only, which is very low compared to 389 units of accord
WOW! That is low. Any further info on the petrol / diesel ratio? But yes...April should tell a clearer picture.
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