Of Turbo-charged Lancers and Honda City Vtecs...

[GTO]

"From: The_great_PJ Sent: 14/02/2004 06:09
Hahhahahahaha mate............. thats a good question can it beat a VTec............... Well let me tell you an incident when I was comin back from Madras from the Formula 3 track back to B'lore.......... I was driving down with about 4 friends (inculding me) and luggage in my car and started racing this guy in a Honda city Vtec and the best part was that it was a togh competition but I beat him..... even the driver of that car was pretty suprised until I stopped and told him that it was a turbo charged lancer........... so yeah can beat a Vtec............. and yeah driving experience for a month was gr8............. modified the silencer and freak the noise it gives is amazin.............. and I dunno how many second quarters it can do should try and see...................anyways its worth the money spent.........
Regards
Pranav Jairam"





That sure was an interesting discussion, which was unfortunately cut short by the closure of formula India. Coming back to it, I think that a turbo-charged lancer, even with boost in single digit psi's will easily pump out 110 bhp+. Now how the driveablity, gear ratio matching and performance works out totally depends on the quality of parts and execution.

On a track, my bets would be on the Turbo Lancer...having raced in a regular lancer on numerous occassions, I have fallen in love with the cars steering, braking and handling prowess.

But then, pump in some reasonable $$ into the delicious City Vtec and you will have one of the most competent Indian cars around...Honda engineering has never let its enthusiasts down.

However City street racing in India hardly throws an advantage to the more "bhp"ed car. Street racing is more about luck and how big your b*lls are. The car hardly matters.

GTO[b]

[Shan2nu]

Very true,
I've been beaten by M 800s and Zens during rush hour. It's not that i can't beat them, it's just that i seem to be very careful on unfamiliar and congested roads.

I don't entertain street racing unless it's legal.

If i were to choose between a (race prepared) Lancer and Vtec, I'd choose the Vtec.

My friend who attended the "Great Ford Drive" in Blore asked the Ford Mondeo "Official" driver which car he would have preffered to race in.

His answer was quick, unhesitant and comprised of four letters.......V.T.E.C!!!

In India, you can either have a powerful car or a good handling one but, with the Vtec you get an unbeatable combination of both.

Regards...
Shan2nu

[devarshi84]

How would a turbo vtec with free flow( I think d dual pipes are already free flow) compare to a turbo charged lancer with free flow? Coz frankly speaking its unfair to compare a stock vtec to a turbo lancer. I dunno about the OHC vtec's engine but think that A stock lancer can Achieve more horses and also accomodate a bigger turbo compared to the city due to the smooth and flexible engine and more space under the hood.

looking at it this way.

A lancer handles better than the vtec
similarly a vtec accelerates faster than the lancer

Excerpts from BSmotoring article

"The Honda edges ahead by one full second in the 100 kph sprint too but 11 seconds to nudge the ton is enough to make even Shahid Afridi look pedestrian. What the Lancer loses out on outright acceleration, it gains in sheer driveability. While the high revving Honda engine requires a good driver to take it to the limit, the Lancer is capable of making great drivers out of good ones. The engine is always under control and playing with the accelerator to gain or lose speed is fun with the Lancer. A flat torque curve means you make good headway even in traffic without shifting too much. The Lancer petrol engine is a true all-rounder in every sense of the word."


"The City is a car with a bare-basic rear suspension set-up. Featuring a independent strut with trapezoid link assembly, the vehicle falls short of the ride and handling package offered by the most of the competition in its class and even some cars in the one-lower segment. What saves the day, though, are the superb wheels that come as part of the package - the tyres showed absolutely no signs of traction loss throughout, except when they were called to work at speed and handling parameters beyond the abilities of the suspension set-up. "


"This is where the Honda City loses and the Lancer wins (why are we comparing these cars all the time?). The Lancer packs Japanese punch in its powertrain refinement and performance and has blended in a thorough suspension set up that is more of a European trait. A sub frame mounted McPherson strut assembly up front and multi-link rear end with stabiliser bars are what most modern, front-wheel driven cars possess and the Lancer has it too. The difference is in the way it is set up. It is neither too soft nor too stiff and compliments the dual personality of the car. Soft-foot around town and the Lancer is as docile and comfortable as any car can get. Bumps and potholes are dismissed off with audible thumps at slow speeds (and with 183 mm ground clearance and a high stance it can tackle most of them).

Floor that pedal and point that three-diamond star to a winding road and the racer sharp reflexes of a world-rally championship car take over...well, almost. A well-weighted steering that inversely varies assistance with the speed of the car means you are tackling U-turns that can make an Omni weep in shame. And as the 100 plus mark is touched, the steering is on the 'weighed' side - always on alert and waiting for you to make those little inputs that can make life on a turning track very involving.

So it is not an E-class Mercedes that dictate terms however bad a driver you are and is also dissimilar to the Honda City which demands a distant relationship with Jacques Villeneuve to reach that neighbourhood hill station in style. The Lancer is in-between...involving when you want it to and as docile as a Maruti 800 when you don't."

[Fuelled]

Originally Posted by GTO.

..
..
However City street racing in India hardly throws an advantage to the more "bhp"ed car. Street racing is more about luck and how big your b*lls are. The car hardly matters.
..

Right on. In city conditions power is immaterial. Its more about whether you can find spaces to squeeze your car in free gaps

I have beaten a many RS in city conditions and that too in a xing. The reason being that he couldnt dare fit his baby in places i could.

And I have lost many a times to beaten up 800s. The reason being that I couldnt dare fit my baby in places he could.

Point proven.

[humyum]

Fuelled u are so right..in city conditions power is immaterial...its all about who has the bigger guys to take more risks..nd squeez between gaps..many a times have beaten skodas and lancers with my 800 which i dare would not race on empty roads..

[nitrous]

Our own 'BikerSG' owned a turbo lancer for quite sometime.

A stock Lancer puts out 87bhp.A stock City VTEC puts out 105 bhp.

Now, similarly turbo-charging both the cars will give something proportionate to the figure above .

[ZenGT]

even so turbo charging the lancer gains around 110 bhp .. i think if u do the basic mods to the vtec ..lik exhaust filter , plugs . fpr etc ... n a good driver .. it wud definately beat the turbo changed lancer anyday.... ..

comparing the engine....
quote
The Lancer petrol engine is a true all-rounder in every sense of the word quote

i think the current lancer engine cant come close to the ones from the honda...

1.5 12v feels very sluggish ... its not got the happy feel about it... o you can say its a oldies car..... only thing i like bout a modded lancer is the air filter sound above 6k rpm... phewww feels lik something jus asking to keep pushing it..... but then again u still wr u were....

where as in the honda city vtec...
1.5 16v vtec ... as soon as you start sticking your foot to floor... it instantly feels lik a racing pedigre engine..... revs happy...n with the vtec u can actually feel the power kickin in..... n it jus takes u on n on n on with those high revs ... jus exhaust filter n plugs the vtec did a whooping 210kmph with ease..... well at tht speed the car does feel a bit twicthy though... but a little bit mod s to it suspension n she ll b all worth it.... n its not all that bad on the corners either... u do tend to get a little nervous at times with the body roll at about 120 130 kmph...also the steering feels a little slow to react compared to the lancer.. but then once u get yr driving line correct it ll go wr u take it...u can get a little wider tyres to get a little more sticky... u can jus throw yr self in the corner n u know the honda is capable of getting u out of it...
its a brilliant vehicle... it has that sporty feel about it, from the moment u sit in those low lying seats..... moreover this engine is capable of goin more than 300+ bhp ...... it has the potential ... it has the feel.... i think the honda city vtec is n e day better than the lancer(turbo) we have here in india.. ..
my vote will always go to the honda n e day.....

cheers
fs

[Psycho]

Well most of the time I am amazed about the comparisions made between modded cars and stock cars ( feels like comparing the M800 with a McLaren F1 ), however still feel the lancer way too underpowered for its class however the car on its own is a brilliant handler and the 3 valve setup does no justice at all, and why a vtec every time (understand it has a great engine but it was a one off car appreciated after they stopped selling) the fastest cars around happen to the transformed zens ( ezen, bzen, honda zen, vtec zen, GT twin cam ) and funnily have seen turbo versions on the b and a vtec zen which are monsters on their own right some of the great jobs have been done by Raj (NA with NOS), Leela(turbo), Domnic(both NA and Turbo), Scan(both NA and Turbo). But when it comes to handling the world turns upside down with the lancer taking the cake, no wonder we see so many Mivec transplants around.

Honda has failed to be able to provide their cars with the right suspension package like so many others, suzuki themselves just about to turn around a brilliant handling job on the stock swift but failed on the others.

Looks like we arent too far away when we get a car with the power, handling and the looks in one great package, till then I guess we might just have to wait.

[ZenGT]

well physo .. those cars are definately monstorous..... but that doesnt matter now... does it...? what we are comparing right now is the a turbo charged lancer with a vtec as posted by gto...
other wise ... i think we have cars which are faster than n e vehicle produced in india atleast.... offcourse... u , dom , leela, raj .. have made some brillliant vehicles... those are not comparable with these stock vehicle.. are they....? handlin wise lancer definately takes the cake... but overall i feel n im sure every car enthusiast wud prefer a vtec... n offcourse talking bout handling the newest entry v hav here is the swift.. which i feel is jus amazing.... as of now we can jus wait n watch till the next drag .. what we get.... out of the swifts.....

[Shan2nu]

understand it has a great engine but it was a one off car appreciated after they stopped selling

Better late than never. Hehe

That's why, people need to house bigger engines in smaller/lighter cars, to beat it.

Why not try beating, or rather matching it with a C segment engine.....in it's own chassis.

Shan2nu

[amitoj]

A car that can shoot to 100 from 0 in a flash in a straight line is no fun if its rear is always gonna give u heebie jeebies every time u take a corner! I mean, come on! Real life has curves, people!

My zen in its previous avtar had a flighty rear.... and now that its been stabilized (thanks to Psycho), i realise how stupidly crazy i was to go at high speeds on a car that had a wagging tail, so to speak.

I'll settle for a car that takes one second more to reach 100 but in return gives me the confidence that i can maintain those speeds when i take that bend up ahead.

Cheers
Amitoj

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Why not try beating, or rather matching it with a C segment engine.....in it's own chassis.
Shan2nu

Hey Shan yeah that would be a nice build guess my signature is a great clue.

ZenGT, yes a production engine vs a modded engine is also a great point however some of the production engines have the capability but are still to be exploited in a right way and with the right set of mods will be able to set some crazy bhp figures, seriously man it all boils down to how much cash you have. However I am yet to see people (excepting a couple I already know) who would put some serous money on the VTEC everyone just worships the car as is and not as what it can be.

Still feel that the VTEC is a one off car.

[Shan2nu]

Frankly, i dunno whats all this talk about the Vtec not handling at high speeds. I've taken turns at 170kmph on my car (which has stock suspension) and never felt anything.

The only 2 people who've complained of this in their Vtecs, are Ajmat and Wolf and as it turns out, both of them have had their suspension replaced recently (after it went bust).

So, how can v be sure that it wasn't the weak suspension that caused the handling issues.

Shan2nu

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by ZenGT

well physo .. those cars are definately monstorous..... but that doesnt matter now... does it...? what we are comparing right now is the a turbo charged lancer with a vtec as posted by gto...
other wise ... i think we have cars which are faster than n e vehicle produced in india atleast.... offcourse... u , dom , leela, raj .. have made some brillliant vehicles... those are not comparable with these stock vehicle.. are they....? handlin wise lancer definately takes the cake... but overall i feel n im sure every car enthusiast wud prefer a vtec... n offcourse talking bout handling the newest entry v hav here is the swift.. which i feel is jus amazing.... as of now we can jus wait n watch till the next drag .. what we get.... out of the swifts.....

What you gonna do with a powerful car that doesnt handle well?Braking too is another factor to be taken into account. Only power doesnt make a performance car and without power a performance car is crippled. A vtec can be made to handle better while a lancer can be made to perform better. Looks come in as a secondary factor. A car should look quick even while standing still.

[Shan2nu]

Hey Shan yeah that would be a nice build guess my signature is a great clue

So, you're planning on racing a 2ltr engine in the 1451-1650cc class? Looking forward to that.

Still feel that the VTEC is a one off car.

Totally agree with you, it is a one off car.

seriously man it all boils down to how much cash you have

But isn't the Vtec an expensive engine to modify? So, given a certain budget, i think other engines shud get a lot more mods done for the price, making it more powerful. And somehow, it still doesn't translate into outright performance.

Shan2nu