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Old 5th May 2007, 17:36   #46
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To add fuel to the fire, Fiat's Ranjangaon facility has the capacity of 1 lakh cars per annum.

Well, Fiat has the capacity to make 1 lakh cars. So its up to Tata and their dealers to sell them
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Old 5th May 2007, 20:06   #47
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So its up to Tata and their dealers to sell them
Just back from a Tata-Fiat dealership in Pune. The stepmotherly treatment given to the Palio is evident there... The lonely bottle green Palio Stile was alone and neglected in a corner.
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Old 5th May 2007, 23:07   #48
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Just back from a Tata-Fiat dealership in Pune. The stepmotherly treatment given to the Palio is evident there... The lonely bottle green Palio Stile was alone and neglected in a corner.


Scene 1 at Shaman service workshop: Shaman started off as a Fiat dealership in 1997 and were among the few Fiat only dealers to get a Tata-Fiat dealership. Go into their service center today and all you can see are Tata posters, Tata spares on display like headlights and tail lamps, tata labour rates and tata service standards. There is absolutely nothing about Fiat there.

Scene 2 at Wasan Tata-Fiat showroom: I drive past this showroom quite often and there is nothing about Fiat there. You wouldn't even know that a new Palio has been launched. There are no Palio's parked outside and no posters outside too. On the other hand, there are 2 Indica, 1 Sumo and 1 Safari posters fluttering outside. The only way you will know that there is a Fiat showroom there is by looking at the Wasan boards. Even there TATA looms over the smallish Fiat logo.

If Fiat isn't noticing all this then they might as well shelve plans to launch the Grande Punto and Linea. Isn't it enough that they have murdered the Palio that they are now hell bent on murdering two more of their wonderful cars? While I understand Wasan's treatment to Fiat, Shaman too has turned their backs, literally, on a company they started off their business with.

Forget 100K units a year, Fiat first needs to ensure that people know about the existance of Fiat in the market. An average Indian hatchback buyer today doesn't even consider the Palio in his shortlisted cars. Forget selling their cars, they first need to get people into the showrooms to look at a Fiat. Currently, it feels like fiat is depending on people walking in to look at a Indica actually ending up buying a Palio when they happen to look at the Palio in the showroom. You aren't gonna sell 100K units by scavenging off some crumbs from a successful brand.
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Old 5th May 2007, 23:46   #49
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Thatz really a sorry state of Fiat in India!
Am still not convinced about the Fiat-Tata tieup, I can just see Tata gaining from this collaboration by getting JTD engines, export of Tata cars in European markets etc.
And in return what does Fiat get, a small dark corner in Tata showrooms for their excellent Cars, and Tata service centers to accomodate Fiat cars, where the technicians are yet to get a hang of Fiat machinery.

Just see Hyundai, they came to India in 1999, started from scratch and now they 2nd largest Car maker in India with excellent Sales and Service throughout the country!
And Fiat India is in India for more than a decade, and it is still struggling for survival. Now, they are taking a short-cut by piggybacking Tata Motors!
Only time will tell, whether it will succeed or not!
But just for the sake of superior Fiat cars like Grande Punto, Linea, Bravo etc, I just it hope it makes a turnaround of its fortunes!

Last edited by finneyp : 5th May 2007 at 23:49.
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Old 6th May 2007, 22:19   #50
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We should conduct a poll on this, whether fiat get into a bad deal with tata.
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Old 6th May 2007, 22:53   #51
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We should conduct a poll on this, whether fiat get into a bad deal with tata.

That would be the most lop-sided poll this side of Iraq.
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Old 7th May 2007, 01:05   #52
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You know what? The pain of the Fiat enthusiasts and even others is quite palpable. The idea behind the tie-up with Tata is right... That is the basic idea. Piggyback on the strengths of a successful manufacturer, get showroom space and service lines without immediate direct intervention. However in reality that may not be happening. I think this kind of tie-ups can not be successful unless there are cross-holdings at the organizational levels. There should also be a non-executive member in the Tata board representing Fiat. They need to drive the idea from top-down.

At the moment it looks like the showroom guys have just been permitted to sell a different brand outside of Tata stable as a bonus. Obviously they do not get to make much when compared to a Tata sale. I am guessing this, but in all probabilities, with reduced prices on Fiat cars and then paying a good royalty to Tata for piggybacking them Fiat is not left with enough to offer as a hefty a cut to the dealers on each sale as Tata does. This won't gain them much.
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Old 7th May 2007, 22:01   #53
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Indeed a SAD story for FIAT.. I dont know whether this is a habit of Italians.. Make something as good as you can market it bad.. After 3-4 years, I saw an Ad on television by FIAT.. rather TATA initiative.. What FIAT India was doing since 3 years... Mouth publicity of cars?? ridiculoous or the money coming from parent company was going in officials pockets and their luxury??


Even a school kid can tell that a product requires marketing... a road side food stall even does marketing by publishing few boards on road and a company of 100 yrs old can not do it?? I am a member of FIAT group on yahoo and we have 1000+ members who could be actually better FIAT officials than those hired by FIAT India.

Now TATA must be very happy about this deal as they know they have very little to return to FIAT India for such a world class technology.. What went wrong with FIAT is their marketing act and After Sales Service rather than technology.. If a company can not recognize this in 10 years of stay then they should better return to their home ground. I respect Hyndai for very this reason that though they did not have good designs, engines, they are 2nd largest manf of India..

100,000 + sales is just IMPOSSBILE for FIAT India... n that too with the help of TATA... forget itttttttt.... I have seen Palio treated as an orphan in TATA showrooms.. TATA dealer sales guys knows a **** about FIAT cars... n then what FIAT did a mistake was to braodcast the new television Ad on CNBC... Dont they know between 9-11 all television viewrs are busy seeing (???) all "K" serials.. cant they braodcast Ad here as it is a family and entry seg car rather than a car which will interest premium buyers.. After all "it takes a Brain".. Anyways I love FIAT for their tech and my Palio.. n I wish them a very good luck...

Cheers
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Old 7th May 2007, 23:02   #54
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
I think this kind of tie-ups can not be successful unless there are cross-holdings at the organizational levels. There should also be a non-executive member in the Tata board representing Fiat.
I believe Ratan Tata sits on the Fiat board - not the Indian arm but the parent. There are also rumours of Bombay House having bought a stake in the parent, but I dont know how far that is true.

Tata Group | Tata Motors | Media reports | Ratan Tata joins Fiat board
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Old 7th May 2007, 23:07   #55
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I had written a e-mail to FIAT HQ regarding 1.6 stile not available in colours other than red & black. Yesterday (Sunday 6th) got a call from FIAT factory(After 3 weeks). One Martin was on the line. He said that he is from marketing. Explained that 1.6 being sport version can be only in red or black. I explained to him that this will reduce the no of people buying FIATs. (In my office at least 2 FIAT enthu persons went for SWIFT). He told me that he will convey my opinion to mgmt. I asked him about 1.6 not available for TD. He said that because of great(!) demand for 1.1 1.6 production was delayed. 1.6 now is being sent to dealers.(Today I got call from Fortune Motors for TD of 1.6. ) I also asked him about 13 JTD in Palio. He said that it will not come before June 08. The plant for 1.3 JTD will be complete only by Apr 08 at Ranjangaon. He also said that some of the older FIAT dealers are being converted into FIAT/TATA dealers. He also said that Punto will not come before Apr 08 and initial model will be petrol.

All the best to FIAT for 1L sale.
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Old 8th May 2007, 00:08   #56
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Dear cartech,

To which id you did mail fiat ? Can i get it ? Mailing fiat india is just like mailing tata. So i too want to mail fiat hqtrs.
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Old 8th May 2007, 10:23   #57
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Dear cartech,

To which id you did mail fiat ? Can i get it ? Mailing fiat india is just like mailing tata. So i too want to mail fiat hqtrs.
Use this link to mail to FIAT HQs directly
Fiat / ContactUs
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Old 8th May 2007, 10:35   #58
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As previously stated by someone
FIAT needs to sell ALL its cars to Maruti.
Maruti would take care of marketing and selling the car.

I checked the website of Maruti SX4, the only hint of the FIAT-SUUZKI colloboration was that the car has european styling..thats about it....

TATA and Maruti have used the alliance and the technology of FIAT well.
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Old 8th May 2007, 10:39   #59
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Hi Swathyd, I used link mentioned by raajks.
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Old 8th May 2007, 12:11   #60
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Unlearning is a very difficult task.... and unlearning bad things is even harder....thats the problem with fiat right now....they just want to continue the way they have been.... and dealers arent giving a damn because sales arent picking up... Imagine, you are a FIAT salesman in TATA showroom, your buddy is selling 20 cars a day, while you can hardly manage 1, the incentive mismatch is going to be huge...what kind of treatment will FIAT get.. I think new models is what FIAT needs.. and good ones too... (Who knows, FIAT may end up with a double punch by putting a sluggish 1.2 or 1.3 on the punto....)

One thing is for sure:
Company's cash registers are finally ringing (whatever small amount that is) : Thanks to swift diesel.
I see more palio ads on TV these days..but none in the print media.
Factory is also producing TATA indica's, so more cash flow.
I think FIAT is concentrating on getting some of its financials together.

With the kind of demand that exists in India today, if a company should FAIL in such a scenario, it is just plain stupid...
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