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Old 18th May 2007, 11:00   #136
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Hi all,

I think in India, people want things to be utilitarian and easy to maintain if the price is low. Apart from these things, if the price is high one needs to provide good looks, performance, features and good image.

i think M&M and Renault have mixed both and are really going be stuck with a non starter.

Regards,
lsjey
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Old 18th May 2007, 12:50   #137
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Worst of all manufacturers like Toyota are accepting comparissions with the Logoff over here
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Old 18th May 2007, 13:44   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Let me try and enlighten you on this. From the Maruti 800, to the Gypsy, to the 1000, the Esteem, the Omni, the Baleno, the Wagon R, the Zen, the Grand Vitara, all the Maruti models I have mentioned, were sold in India at the same time as they were sold in the world market. That is to say, they were introduced in India while their world sales were going on. The Estilo is an exception, and I am not sure about the Alto.

In conclusion, one realises that one must not make sweeping statements unless they are backed by proof or correct information.
Alright, Please enlighten us more with some more details and proof attached. The details of each and every car Maruti has launched (right from the launch of 800 to the SX4). In which other countries were they being made when they were launched in India. And by world market..did you mean developing/ third world countries like India??
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Old 18th May 2007, 14:14   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
Worst of all manufacturers like Toyota are accepting comparissions with the Logoff over here
Yucks, thats the worst thing that Toyota could have done and the best compliment that unwittingly came the Logan way. They listed the Logan alongside the Civic, Skoda & Corolla, when they ask "Next car?". What were those guys smoking, seriously ?

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Originally Posted by ashutoshb
Since the 80s they have given us nothing but 'hand me down' cars. Cars who stopped selling elsewhere in the world
Just because a car is being offered in a market, after it was discontinued elsewhere, does it mean that the car is no good ? All it means is that the other markets were more mature and ready for newer versions, while ours was not there yet.

I drove the M800 first in 1985 - there was nothing in that price range or even a little more to beat it then, in various parameters. Even today, what car do we have in the M800 segment that can compete against it ? Just because it is here for 20 odd years, does it mean it has to go ? I still think it is a nice choice for safe city commutes, and more so at the price.

OK, if we had alternatives to it which were more FE or more powerful or better built at that prices, then even MUL cannot avoid its demise. It will just have to die. Till then, it will sell by the truckloads and be sold as long as consumers find value in it.

The Esteem is something that has been around for 13 years, remaining almost the same except for cosmetic changes. Everyone says that MUL is selling an old car and it needs to go. But check its sales figures and you would know why MUL retains it and why so many people find value in it to go for it (even repeat purchases) inspite of newer cars like the Flair, Accent, Indigo etc. If even after 13 years, the competition with their so-called newer cars can't beat it in FE or price or power or low maintenance, what's the use of calling it primitive ?
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Old 18th May 2007, 17:20   #140
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Quote:
What were those guys smoking, seriously ?
By Toyota doing that, Mahindra Renaults aim has been achieved off showcasing the Logoff as a D segment car.
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Old 18th May 2007, 17:35   #141
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To add to TSKs comments, Maruti also vehemently opposed the diesel engine cause. Until they had no option but to offer it.

Yup, Maruti aint no saint either.
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Old 18th May 2007, 18:29   #142
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Both Maruti and M&M have one thing in common.. Both are from the era of licence raj, when the customer could be taken for granted.

Maruti got burnt badly and learnt to cope with customer demands.. Alas, M&M doesnt seem to have learnt its lessons yet.
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Old 18th May 2007, 20:30   #143
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Both Maruti and M&M have one thing in common.. Both are from the era of licence raj, when the customer could be taken for granted.
Yeah but M&M was one of the License Raj kings, MILKING the Institutional and Government markets - I'm sure it was more than a coincidence that the Jeep became a politcal and bureaucratic accessory like the Amby.

I'll bet you the Logan will see a lot of such 'institutional sales'. A lot of our Babus will have to live with the Logan's el-cheapo interiors.
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Old 18th May 2007, 20:39   #144
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I'll bet you the Logan will see a lot of such 'institutional sales'. A lot of our Babus will have to live with the Logan's el-cheapo interiors.
I guess here also Mr. Jagdish Khattar has made an pre-emtive strike. Last time I heard, the babus in the North and South Blocs were to get non-AC Esteems as their 'official' cars.
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Old 18th May 2007, 20:52   #145
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I hope Renault doesn't lose so much face with the association with Mahindra and the Logan that their Megane also suffers in the process.

We really need Renault and Citroen to launch some of their better cars in the Indian market. Some of these models are too sweet to be denied to India.
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Old 18th May 2007, 21:11   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
In conclusion, one realises that one must not make sweeping statements unless they are backed by proof or correct information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Do you expect me to sit and list out comparisons with the rest of the world here?
two completely opposite statements you ve made there. What proof do you have these models were still being produced in the ROW? Unless your last name is Khattar or Suzuki why should I believe you? Even I don't ve time to search the google for hours and find out whether what you have said is correct or not.

"one must not make sweeping statements unless they are backed by proof or correct information." thats the forum's policy/rules.
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Old 18th May 2007, 21:31   #147
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Wonder why foreign car vendors need local partners at all. What do they bring to the table?

In the 80s when you needed an office of 100 chamchas to deal with Delhi bureaucrats (and dial phone numbers after getting dial tone), licenses were given to connected few, blah blah blah.. it made sense. This is an English speaking market at least for cars..

Renault and others should go it alone instead of being misled by lalas and banias and other moneybags who have been dragged kicking and screaming into the competitive world with great reluctance.
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Old 18th May 2007, 21:47   #148
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Note from mod: Please comments and abuses are not tolerated on this forum. Try and continue discussion in a civil matter, and if its not possible for you to do so, refrain from posting

Last edited by tsk1979 : 19th May 2007 at 02:16.
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Old 18th May 2007, 23:05   #149
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whats the big deal in googling.

Here i have done it for you.

Clickable1
Clickable2

Last edited by Aditya : 19th May 2007 at 07:57.
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Old 21st May 2007, 11:18   #150
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All,

I have started seeing a few Logoff's in Mumbai...surprisingly all have been spotted by me in the wee hours...seems like the Logan owners are shy to take them in the mornings....

PS: I do not intend to hurt anyone's sentiments but this is pure observation...I have seen these cars with covers during the day and being driven at night.
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