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Old 16th May 2007, 09:58   #76
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With renault's name at stake in the indian automobile industry I guess they ought to have done their homework .. No point in blaming M&M alone .. Both are at fault ..
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Old 16th May 2007, 10:00   #77
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I think its a premature to jump on conclusions about this vehicle just based on a news item in ET. This vehicle has done extremely well in other countries. Also in Delhi till date I havent seen a single Logan on road. I believe once it comes on roads and is really good then by word of mouth the sales can always pick up. We have to give vehicle atleast 6 months before jumping that it has been a flop. I personally have driven a RENAULT Clio and their cars are really good.
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Old 16th May 2007, 10:03   #78
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This dialogue is similar to what the Brits said about the Indica/ Ciy Rover

Had it been priced cheap: "ok, will overlook shortcomings and cheap fittings"

Priced high: "who the hell are they to try and rip us off with cheap junk"
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Old 16th May 2007, 11:17   #79
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Mahindra never had a proper Product Development division, till they started working on the Scorpio. The Bolero was the first serious in-house product development output. And they woke up from their slumber only when the Qualis started doing extremely well. The initial reaction to Qualis was "look at this ugly thing, it is going to be a failure". They were expecting the better looking Kijang model then sold in some of the Asian countries. So that being the case, it would definitely take a lot of time for the Mahindras to improve their own standards of product development.

Renault was in India during 1996-99 trying to launch a couple of their Heavy Commercial Vehicles through Eicher Motors. But the collaboration did not come through in the final stages, due to certain reasons. So they had a lot of interaction with the Indian market (although not with the car market).

Again the Ford Escort was not such a big success in India and Mahindra should have learned something from that.
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Old 16th May 2007, 11:24   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
This dialogue is similar to what the Brits said about the Indica/ Ciy Rover

Had it been priced cheap: "ok, will overlook shortcomings and cheap fittings"

Priced high: "who the hell are they to try and rip us off with cheap junk"
Not that i'm taking the Logan's side, but the parts used are not exactly cheap, compared to say a Mahindra Major (4.7 lakhs) or San Storm (6 lakhs?). The car is built for a purpose, and thats VFM, and Mahindra Renault messed up with the positioning.

Same thing with the Indicas, VFM is why it sells. Everyone who owns one is overlooking the cheap parts and build quality for space, economy etc...
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Old 16th May 2007, 11:27   #81
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Originally Posted by NIP View Post
he car is built for a purpose, and thats VFM, and Mahindra Renault messed up with the positioning.
Just the positioning? They messed up with the pricing as well. Maybe they should have waited for the SX-4 and then made their move.
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Old 16th May 2007, 11:31   #82
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Ok, at the risk of going OT, ... lily-white.
dude...you dont need to justify so much. i agree with what you're saying, but the WAY you said it earlier was what i was talkin about. I hope u understand...
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Old 16th May 2007, 11:33   #83
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Originally Posted by typeOnegative View Post
Just the positioning? They messed up with the pricing as well. Maybe they should have waited for the SX-4 and then made their move.
well positioning is directly proportional to pricing here innit ?

Last edited by NIP : 16th May 2007 at 11:35.
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Old 16th May 2007, 11:41   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIP View Post
Same thing with the Indicas, VFM is why it sells. Everyone who owns one is overlooking the cheap parts and build quality for space, economy etc...
NIP, now this will be a bit OT, but nonetheless since you raised this point and also considering that it is a running statement (Present continuous) I would like to know this. According to you in comparision to any A2 class car at below 5L pricing which part of a 2007 Indica is cheap and shoddy?

Remember, I am not trying to defend Indica or show any other car down. However I always find it intriguing when people make these sweeping statements (cheap parts) based on some arcane ideas and stale facts.

Recently I very seriously tried to compare every part of a 2007 Indica with a contemporary hatch in A2 class whose owner made a similar statement. I failed to see the point and the guy was also not very convincing either. I did the comparsion in front of him... he just kept mumbling "I can ask anyone"...

So if you really have a particular part A or B in mind which immediately proves the point vis-a-vis any other car in the class would love to know about it.
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Old 16th May 2007, 11:50   #85
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its verna which has shaken up the mid-sized diesel sedan market.........logan was eagerly awaited but its presence is not felt mayb ppl dont want to go with M&M ...its not an appealing one....
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Old 16th May 2007, 12:04   #86
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
NIP, now this will be ...about it.

Zappo...I was just trying to make sense of what Ajmat said. Anyways, the 'cheap build', 'cheap parts', 'cheap car' is a perception...you understand ? Yea maybe the Indica isn't built cheap, but thats not what the general perception or image is...it certainly has 'evolved' over the years. It has 'taxi' written over it no matter what. For eg., even though the Alto is cheaper, people flock to it because its a maruti and is perceived to be of a certain quality. A lot of people drive Sumos and Qualis' as their daily rides. They dont care about image...its VFM. An enthusiast would never touch a Indica or Sumo right ? Now its the same with the Logan...image. Now these arent arcane ideas and stale facts, are they ? Hope you're getting the point here...I dont need to do any silly comparo to justify this bruh !

Last edited by NIP : 16th May 2007 at 12:08.
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Old 16th May 2007, 12:06   #87
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The article which is the source of this thread compares the number of bookings made for the Spark & SX4 with the number of cars rolled out from the Mahindra-Renault factory. We should wait till MR discloses the booking figures.

The spark belongs to a different segment and comparing its booking figures with Logan or SX4 will be unfair.

The SX4 has an advantage as Maruti is an established player and Mahindra-Renault is not. So booking a car which you have not seen earlier from a company you have not heard about earlier is a difficult thing to do for the aam junta.

The slow selling statement is given by a 'source' which can be incorrect as well. Not every article published is 100% true.

Last edited by ashutoshb : 16th May 2007 at 12:10.
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Old 16th May 2007, 12:14   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIP View Post
I dont need to do any silly comparo to justify this bruh !
Hmmm.... so in other words its again something that you love to say without any valid reason. You were definitely not talking about perception to begin with. You said people overlook its cheap parts and build quality. Thats a straight, affirmative statement.

Anyway... I do not want to hijack this thread. But I would say do not make statements that you can not justify. Saying you do not want to do any "silly comparo" only makes you look silly. Either you should have something to substantiate or else you should desist from making sweeping statements. Period.
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Old 16th May 2007, 13:03   #89
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Originally Posted by typeOnegative View Post
The Scorpio etc. are good vehicles in their own right.
Please, please, please...scorpio is not a good vehicle. It looks good and that too only from outside.
Some honest owneship experiences with Mahindra and Scorpio:
The car:
1. Dashbord glove box - cheap plastics - broken within a couple of months
2. A/C controls - Gear-shift lever goes so close to these, you can not operate them easily while driving
3. A/C blower for the middle seat - chills the middle passenger at the wrong place!
4. Seat belts - when disengaged, they take off like a plane and hit the side windows with so much force, we have "etched" widnows now
5. Gear box: slanted towards co-driver - when I want to shift into third, I invariably go into fifth..plus too much play in the level, shift is notchy. You won't feel like shifting scorpio gears if you are used to driving NHC.

The company:
1. Sold us 9 seater converted into 8 seater. Rejected the delivery, waited for a month, and again they did the same. The chassis number identifies it as a 9-seater version!
2. During the 2 years of ownership, they never roated the tyres (in-spite of telling them every time) and suddenly their smart service guy comes out from nowhere (during 40K service) and tells us there is un-even tyre wear so car will pull to one side and they can't fix. He also asks if we requested tyre rotation every service. "Requested"...huh... This is customer's job?
3. Booked the car and within 24 hours we called them requesting them to upgrade the order to a higher version (there was a wait for 1 month anyways). They said their system did not allow upgrading the booking..."ATTITUDE"...
4. The dealership is amaller than my 2BHK flat and is co-located with a petrol pump. You need to find your way through the long queue of bikers and cars at the pump to go into the dealership and book the car (taking delivery is even horrible...) and what's the funniest - when we took the delivery, there was no diesel to go 1 Kms also, so their driver took us and the car to a pump back-street again making way through their own petrol pump queue and then the road traffic. I asked why we can not fill right here at your pump, he said their pump only sells petrol!!!
Mahindra sells only diesel locomotives (I hate when they call it cars etc) then why does their dealer sell only petrol and not diesel ? And why does their dealer operate a petrol pump at all in the first place? And if so, what right at the dealership entrance?????
And why do idiots like us buy Mahindra???? Why????
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Old 16th May 2007, 13:14   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIP View Post
well positioning is directly proportional to pricing here innit ?
Disagree. Related - yes, directly proportional - no. You can position a car as a luxury car, but may still sell it way cheaper than the competition.
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