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View Poll Results: If in the market for a hatch, would you buy the Palio Stile 1.1?
Yes 12 23.53%
No 39 76.47%
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Old 24th May 2007, 15:44   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
I would be considered stupid if I were to compare the SX4(1.6L) engine with that of a Cedia (1.8). Similarly, the 1L(estilo, santro,indica GL, GLE, GLS, GLG, spark) to the 1.3L(of the swift).

Unfortunately not with logical facts. I suggest you do so.
I do take up your suggestion.

Speaking of logic, kindly explain the following to me:

Why is it ok to compare 1.0 Santros / Sparks with the 1.1 Stile, but yet not OK to compare the 1.1 Stile with the 1.2 UVA ??? It would appear that the Stile has more in common with the UVA and the Prime as opposed to the Spark and the Santro.

Surely the Spark and the Santro are a significant size smaller than the Prime, Stile and the UVA. Never mind the fact that the all of the three are also bigger than the Swift.

Like I asked before, are we randomly dispensing with class/ segment demarcations ???
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Old 24th May 2007, 15:49   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
1. Brakes.
Stile 1.1 has one of the worst brakes. Many will agree here. Go out and drive one yourself and then comment.
There's a difference b/w spongy brakes and "worst" brakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
2. I haven't owned a Palio. But fortunately I am from those lucky lot of people who get to keep others' cars for some long periods. Yes, I did have a Palio experience in 2002 when I was staying in a remote village in TN. I had to drive all the way to Bangalore many a times to get some parts and some times had to wait for weeks before a small thing come down from I dunno where!
Granted spares arent as easily available, (though in delhi where I service my car from, there has been no such problems) but that doesnt mean the CAR itself is not good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
And all these for some huge bills nobody could justify.
I also happened to use a Petra some months ago and really regretted it later. That story is quiet famous here. And now the car has been put again in the garaqe because the starter konked off.
Out of all the cars we have in our family, it is always the Fiat cars which tops the visits to the garage and the number of problems closely followed by Tatas. Why is it so?
The newer ones are cheaper? I dunno if you're speaking of the last 2 months.
The service bills for my Palio are cheaper than what my friends pay for their santro's and Swift's. You cannot make or generalize you opinions based on keeping someone's else car for sometime.
Yup the spares parts costs have come down a lot, they are now at par if not cheaper than the competition.
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Old 24th May 2007, 15:51   #123
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@hell ride, In the sub 5L segment, cars are bought considering a lot of factors, but a major factor in this segment is VFM.
Value For Money. People sit and think what will the car give them for the money they pay.
When I got my indica I had a choice of Palio 1.2 and Indica P 1.4
But due to sheer VFM issue(long running, high fuel cost) I chose a car that woke up the entire neighborhood every morning, blew a alternator component every 30,000 kms, screeched the belt at slightest hint of rain, was noise as hell, and needed a healthy dose of abuses to start moving.

Thats what happens when you are low on budget and buying your first car. Its not the enthusiasts market, its a value market.
What the competition promises to give the owner, that Palio fails to.
It does not give more FE.
It does not give more power
It does not tive any special feature.
People need to justify their purchase to themselves. Threre are emotional purchases too, for example somebody I know bought a spark because "Matiz was the best car ever made and spark is the best car in market now". He can easily afford a 8L car, but he bought a spark.
But emotional decisions do not make 10,000 sales.
Any low budget (<5L) car selling less than 3500 units a month is a failure, and scares away more people.
A company which sets a target of 250 cars a month cannot be said to be serious about the Indian car market.
Sure they will bring in Linea etc., Well when they do its good, but till then the only fact we know off is that they have a target of 250cars a month.
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Old 24th May 2007, 15:51   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
A pulsar 200 would be faster than a Santro and a wagon R in that case... so we should dump them too. You care about 0-100 kph time, a lot of people dont, so you ridicule their rationale and reasoning for buying a particular car?
Space is not the only criteria and i hope you realize this.
Read all the posts in the SX4 thread. I have repeatedly said that a Vtec is faster but its not about 0-100 timings and it isint too here but in the same segment and as some put it the Palio is in a segment above the Santro, then a Santro which is in a lower segment is all of 6 seconds faster to 100, yes a Santro does it in 14secs, so wont that affect drivability? Common why would any one buy a car which is in the so called B+ segment and is as slow or slower then India's cheapest car the 800? A 200 wont be faster then a WagonR or Santro, the 200 does it in 17 secs the dash to 100 but lets bunk the bikes here, i just wanted to say that o-100 in 20secs is totally not accepted in 2007

If space is not the only criteria then why should i buy a Palio? For its tank like build and tank like performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
The FE is not low, 12 KMPL with AC in city for 1.2 Litre 1025 Kg car isnt bad by any standards. Palio does a lot better than Getz here, but I(we) dont ridicule Getz.
By the way that is not an "excuse", its the reason for comparitively low FE, you can't bend the laws of physics.
ET - Your main problem is that you are comparing your 1.2 Palio over here wheras this thread is about the 1.1 Its quite evident by reading the words in bold which i have qouted. The Stile is 9XX kgs and still doesnot give ground breaking FE then why should i buy it over a Santro, WangonR, Spark, if space is wanted in a hatch then there is the Xeta which seems to be more VFM.

Quote:
There's a difference b/w spongy brakes and "worst" brakes
Spongy or worst, its going to be the second last to stop, wont it?

Quote:
Granted spares arent as easily available, (though in delhi where I service my car from, there has been no such problems) but that doesnt mean the CAR itself is not good enough.
A car is judged atleast by me, not by how it performs or rides/handles but by how trouble free my ownership experience is. Mind you i have a Palio and servicing is like servicing a Chinkara. P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C

Quote:
Why is it ok to compare 1.0 Santros / Sparks with the 1.1 Stile
Firstly Santro is using a 1.1 Liter engine, secondly Cedia is 2.0L is compared to Optra which is a 1.8L, but how does it matter since both have the same out of 115, similarly Santro and sparks have a output of 63bhp, 6 more then the Stile, and Getz 1.3 has a output of 82, UVA of 72 all are much more then the stile so its a obvious to compare the Stile with the Santro/Spark.

Last edited by BUSA : 24th May 2007 at 15:56.
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Old 24th May 2007, 15:59   #125
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Please guys make up your mind and let us know to which cars we are comparing Palio stile with...

Following are the plus points

A. Category: Engine under 1.1 L (Santro Xing/Xong/Ping/Pong, Alto, WagonR, Spark, M800, Getz prime)
Advt:
1. Spacious
2. Build quality
3. Fresh looks
4. Fuel economy
5. Engine immobilizer (Available only in Palio rt?)
6. Doors shut with a thud
7. Good resale value (If FIAT stays here 10 yrs down the line - as it is new)

Disadvt:
1. No so fuel efficient as Santro, Alto
2. Not as peppy
3. Poor brand image

Category: Engine under 1.3L (Swift, Getz, U-VA, Indica)

Advt:
1. Spacious as others
2. Build quality
3. Fresh looks
4. Engine immobilizer (Available only in Palio rt?)
5. Doors shut with a thud
6. Very good Value for Money *** (At 3.42 L ex Pune)
7. Good resale value (If FIAT stays here 10 yrs down the line - as it is new)

Disadvt:
1. Not as peppy as Swift, Getz
2. Poor brand image
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:00   #126
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if they really cared about the customers like MUL they would have launched the 1.3MJD instead of blaming our fuel quality
I don't recollect Fiat making a statement blaming our fuel quality for not launching the MJD. I believe it was Honda that made this ridiculous statement.

Many of you are going on and on about Fiat not launching the multi-jet diesel and it's latest cars in our market but both Fiat and Tata have been crying hoarse about launching the GP and Linea in 2008 and that their MJD engine production will start in 2008. They have a time frame for reasons best known to them and seem to be sticking to it so far. I know Maruti beat them to the launch of the famed MJD and all that but thats done. Let's not discuss the past. The point is Fiat is talking about bringing in their latest products and diesel engines here. Let's wait for them to achieve their plans. And yes the Grande Punto in 2008 has the potential to move the premium hatch benchmark a lot further from where Swift has now set it.

And I take serious objection to the Palio is expensive to maintain and unreliable comments. The same ACI that we are quoting here has printed the spares prices and the Swift easily has the most expensive spares. Many people don't buy the Palio believing it has expensive spares, why the same logic is not applied to the Swift with documented expensive spares? The Swift again has documented niggling problems with build quality yet the Palio is considered to be a car with niggling issues!

While we take Fiat to the cleaners for their lethargy in our market, let's not forget that Fiat doesn't behave the same everywhere. Two issues back there was a special article in OD on the developement of the Fiat Bravo which apparently went from design freeze to commercial production in 18 months(?). European car makers are looking at the Fiat Bravo developement with a lot of interest because it's believed that Fiat has the set the tone for new car developement times for the future. Point is that these guys have a lot of ability but seems like all the duffer Italians get an India posting.
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:02   #127
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@BUSA... not acceptable to whom... you, or me? How does it matter? Given the option b/w a Getz prime and Santro, given that they cost the same.. which one would you buy?
Stile doesn't give ground breaking FE but it does better than the old 1.2 which didnt sell due to low FE among a lot of other factors.... so what wrong?
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:02   #128
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Fiat and Tata have been crying hoarse about launching the GP and Linea in 2008
How many times has Tata said they are launching a 2.2L Safari a Indica Sport, etc? How many times Fiat has promised us and always breaken them, i just hope they dont break their promises this time around.

Quote:
I don't recollect Fiat making a statement blaming our fuel quality for not launching the MJD. I believe it was Honda that made this ridiculous statement.
Go to their site FAQ and you will see it. Call up the dealer he will also tell you the same thing.

Quote:
not acceptable to whom... you, or me?
To the general public, and thats the reason why the Stile is going to or is already selling in low numbers.

Quote:
Given the option b/w a Getz prime and Santro, given that they cost the same.. which one would you buy?
I would buy a Santro. If i buy a Getz i would surely prefer the 1.3 version.

Quote:
Stile doesn't give ground breaking FE but it does better than the old 1.2 which didnt sell due to low FE among a lot of other factors.... so what wrong?
The wrong thing is since there are two types of buyers :-
1. Who dont care about FE but want performance
2. Those who care about FE but not about performance

Buttt Fiat Stile buyers are some third genre of buyers

Those who dont want FE nor performance and since only very few people are like this the Stile will hardly sell. So the stile is not giving ground breaking FE and still is a slouch, why should i put my money on it, just so i can go slow and still pay my fuel bills and admire the tank like built, surely not

Quote:
it's believed that Fiat has the set the tone for new car developement times for the future.
I rally admire Fiat, Italy for what cars they have build like the Punto, Linea, Bravo, Stilo, Panda. Butttt wait a second, the Palio was built in Brazil or something and this whole thread is complaining about Fiat India and their i dont care attitude.

If the Linea is launched next year i would be the first to put my money on it, i love the car butttt Fiat is too slow in doing anything, even a headlamp change took more then a year

Last edited by BUSA : 24th May 2007 at 16:13.
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:05   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
Why is it ok to compare 1.0 Santros / Sparks with the 1.1 Stile, but yet not OK to compare the 1.1 Stile with the 1.2 UVA ??? It would appear that the Stile has more in common with the UVA and the Prime as opposed to the Spark and the Santro.

Like I asked before, are we randomly dispensing with class/ segment demarcations ???
Maybe this might help:
1. Hyundai Santro - 1086 cc , 63bhp and 9.8kgm.
2. Chevy Spark - 1000cc , 63bhp and 9kgm.
3. Zen Estilo - 1061cc , 64bhp and 8.4kgm.
4. Tata Indica - 1193 cc , 63.5bhp and 10.2kgm.
5. WagonR - 1061cc , 64 bhp and 8.4kgm.

I do hope you can see the similarities and hence the comparison?

While you are at it do check the figures for:
1. Chevy Uva - 1.2L, 76bhp and 11 kgm.
2. Suzuki swift - 1298cc , 87bhp and 11.3kgm.
Which are slightly ahead in terms of power, pricing? and I am told belong to the next sect of B segment cars.

Like I said before be factual.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 24th May 2007 at 16:16.
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:14   #130
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1. Chevy Uva - 1150cc, 92.71bhp and 12.7kgm.
What? I thouth it was 73bhp or so.
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:17   #131
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Originally Posted by sivadas View Post
What? I thouth it was 73bhp or so.
Yes, my mistake. Was mislead by this:
IndiaAutomobile.com

Have corrected with figures from the chevy site.
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:31   #132
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Originally Posted by neoonwheels View Post
Good resale value
Man, my opinion is probably mud, as I am no car guy, I'm just the poor ICE guy. But I don't think that point above was, is or ever will be true.

Just to add some credibility to my opinion, I've had 2 Fiat cars. When the Uno was launched, I was looking for a nice hatch. My 2 choices were Fiat Uno and Maruti Zen. I chose the Uno, as ACI claimed it to be a better car. Also my 2 cars before that were a M800 and a Maruti Van. Both reliable till I was sick of them.
I purchased the FIRE petrol option with the weber carbs. I paid a little under 4 lacs for this car. (3,75,000)

The car suffered major reliability issues and spare parts were very expensive. It was a pain in my backside. Many years later I sold it for 22500/-. While selling it, the clutch kit had failed for the 8th time in the car's life and I was faced with an expense of Rs. 8000/-. I chose to get rid of it instead.

Till date I regret not buying a zen (same price) in it's stead. Had I bought that zen, I would have paid FAR less on maintainence and recd a much higher price on resale. It was a lot of money lost and I felt quite cheated.

I had also had the privilege of having one of the fastest Palio 1.6 cars in india. (the originator of this thread will testify, he owned it for a few days). It's engine was modified. Don't ask me what was done, I don't know.
However we also sold this car for a ridiculously low amount, last year.

I do not believe I am qualified to comment on the stile's performance. When I want to buy a car, I simply ask my friends Rtech, dippy, N_C etc. for advice. They generally know everything about cars that I dont.

I may or may not buy a Palio stile for it's performance, or lack of it.

HOWEVER - I will never buy a Palio Stile for it's good resale value.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 24th May 2007 at 16:37.
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:38   #133
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Agree with you there Sam!
Thanks to the negative brand image of Fiat in India, Fiat cars have suffered with a poor Resale value, no doubt on that!

But, we need to give Credit where it is due and not blind bashing just for the heck of it!
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:39   #134
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Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
Go to their site FAQ and you will see it. Call up the dealer he will also tell you the same thing.
Nothing of that sort mentioned on their website. Went to the encyclopedia section and all it contains are tips to maximise fuel efficiency from the car. As for calling the dealer , do you actually believe everything that the the dealers tell you and do you honestly feel that the dealers know what they are talking about?

Quote:
I will never buy a Palio Stile for it's good resale value.
Pathetic resale values are a problem with Fiat's globally. At least in this respect no one can complain that Fiat isn't giving us what it gives the developed western world!

Last edited by amit : 24th May 2007 at 16:44.
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Old 24th May 2007, 16:41   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam kapasi
Just to add some credibility to my opinion, I've had 2 Fiat cars. When the Uno was launched, I was looking for a nice hatch. My 2 choices were Fiat Uno and Maruti Zen. I chose the Uno, as ACI claimed it to be a better car.
I purchased the FIRE petrol option with the weber carbs.
You sure do your homework. And seem pretty informed about engine vengine. But pretend quite a bit that you dont.

Quote:
The car suffered major reliability issues and spare parts were very expensive. It was a pain in my backside. Many years later I sold it for 22500/-
Yes, Infact memo45_m sold his 1.2 petra for just 65,000/- . It must have been 5 yrs old. After having bought it for 6L+ ?

Quote:
I had also had the privilege of having one of the fastest Palio 1.6 cars in india. (the originator of this thread will testify). It's engine was modified.
However we also sold this car for a ridiculously low amount.
I totally forgot. I was the first one to drive it amongst the bangy bhpians and that car was insanely fast. Maybe the fastest GTX in the country. And I loved it.

All you fiat fans ought to read this review:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...eballer-5.html

I hope that re-instates that I dont hate FIAT's specially you finney.

Quote:
HOWEVER - I will never buy a Palio Stile for it's good resale value.
I agree.
Quote:
But, we need to give Credit where it is due and not blind bashing just for the heck of it!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record. Caught up on the same thing. Read the above review will you? And stop drawing conclusions.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 24th May 2007 at 16:48.
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