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Old 26th May 2007, 16:12   #61
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Originally Posted by spadival View Post
AFAIK, Palio and Indica were designed by the same firm - IDEA. But what Indica lacks is the Giorgetto Giugiaro touch that Palio has.
How's that? Good old Giorgetto runs Italdesign (Lambo's, some Fiats along with Centrostile, and Daewoo Matiz in one of his quieter moments). He must think that IDEA comes up with mediocre s***, though I personally think they did a good job with the Marina.
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Old 26th May 2007, 16:16   #62
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Yeah so I am given to understand. In fact recently I received some computer generated images of the V3.
Post 'em Zappo. Maybe a set of enthusiasts will give the 'appropriate' feedback, that might get Tata's to do any necessary course correction. There are many here who'd want Tata's to make a world beater/ industry defining car in its segment.
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Old 26th May 2007, 16:19   #63
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Originally Posted by wizardofid View Post
How's that? Good old Giorgetto runs Italdesign (Lambo's, some Fiats along with Centrostile, and Daewoo Matiz in one of his quieter moments). He must think that IDEA comes up with mediocre s***, though I personally think they did a good job with the Marina.
I think the Palio previous to the first gen Indian Palio was designed by IDEA. Which is why they delayed launching it, because it looked a lot like the Indica. Not too sure though.
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Old 26th May 2007, 16:20   #64
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hopefully this alliance of tata fiat might turn out to be more than what it was expected to do. like fiat can provide their styling and tata can chip in their VFM thoughts and we d then have good vehicles that redefine purpose, luxury, and value.
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Old 26th May 2007, 16:28   #65
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
'thought he is looking for the whole car.
indeed. Yeah, the assesment of the '50k in a short span' cars is pretty accurate - people who intend to keep cars for a short time from the word go do tend to abuse them a bit. Software junta, on the other hand, want more or less the showroom prices if the cars havent done much
Sneak pix of the V3 are awaited with bated breath.
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Old 26th May 2007, 16:29   #66
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I think the Palio previous to the first gen Indian Palio was designed by IDEA. Which is why they delayed launching it, because it looked a lot like the Indica. Not too sure though.
Yup true. Looked very similar to the indica.
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Old 26th May 2007, 16:30   #67
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i'll second / third that...
on the looks front, the indica to me is reasonably handsome car. though not a head-turner or a design thats very high on the wow-factor. but as has been correctly mentioned, we see so many of them, we don't really "see" the car.

I like the fact that the Indica has a simple and solid no-nonsense stance. My only gripe lookswise is the ridiculous wheel-arches that have been added on. I think it looks better without those, as in pics of the yellow Indica Sport.
In the 90's Tata's was a more conservative company than they are today though they are still conservative. More than a decade ago, IDEA would have gauged that as they worked with them and given them something that works, even if it lacks flambuoyance.

I think that they ran into one issue late in the development, which did mess up a few things for a little (even conventional) hatchback design. The 1.4 IDI turned out to be a little too tall. That is why there is such a steep slope along the bonnet to the passenger cab - leading to some lop-sided ergonomics with that large dashboard and high windscreen start, reducing road visibility significantly and resulting in some short drivers getting a crink in their neck.

The addition of wheel arches (on the V2?) was a stylistic disaster. When my friend bought a Xeta last year, he practically pleaded with Concorde motors to request Tata's to give us the original bumper and no wheel arches. Obviously they refused, apart from giving us a few incredulous looks. Those arches make a decent design look downright DUMPY.

IDEA did some pretty good corrections on the indigo design when they designed the Marina, which I think is Tata's best offering to date. But they would have done better to learn something from another car in their own showroom - the Fiat Palio Adventure. The Marina could have done with some wheel arches, roof rails (which it does), and some more 'adventure' (the noun, not the car) and 'escape' theme riggings, rather than let it be dismissed as an estate version of the indigo.

In the end, one thing that does Tata cars in, is their lack of commitment to fit and finish. Even a very good design is rendered mediocre if the build does not do justice to it. In the car market, the price and stakes are high, the eye looks for perfection, and tata cars don't even come close.
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Old 26th May 2007, 16:37   #68
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Originally Posted by wizardofid View Post
The Marina could have done with some wheel arches, roof rails (which it does), and some more 'adventure' (the noun, not the car) and 'escape' theme riggings, rather than let it be dismissed as an estate version of the indigo.
Yes, I've often imagined a macho-er Marina - its definitely possible and will help it get rid of the 'estate' tag like you said. Being Tata, they could even give it jump seats, a little more gc and a two tone paint job, and sell it as a micro-suv or muv or some such The market would lap the story up well.

Yes, a better fit n finish on all their cars would help even the current designs feel better. The Safari seems to not 'miss' the fit n finish tho its practically the same.
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Old 27th May 2007, 11:49   #69
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My other gripes about the Swift aside, I would never go for something that looks like the Swift. Too curvy / feminine for me.
really?? Does anyone else feel this way? I thought the lines on the Swift are far more masculine than most cars out there.
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Old 27th May 2007, 14:03   #70
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really?? Does anyone else feel this way? I thought the lines on the Swift are far more masculine than most cars out there.
I do not know about Swift's feminine lines but my wife always says she can not stand the Swift because to her it "looks like a toad on wheels"
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Old 27th May 2007, 16:17   #71
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
I do not know about Swift's feminine lines but my wife always says she can not stand the Swift because to her it "looks like a toad on wheels"
exactly my thoughts.i feel swift was designed keeping in mind onlookers than car owners.
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Old 27th May 2007, 17:49   #72
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We have an Indigo LS TDI in the family which has done 27000 kms in an year. No problems encountered till date. The engine feels rock solid (and quiet too) and delivers exceptional mileage.

It has done Chennai - Pune - Chennai trip twice, without any complaints. You just have to wait for the Turbo to kick in..
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Old 27th May 2007, 22:40   #73
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Originally Posted by wizardofid View Post
In the 90's Tata's was a more conservative company than they are today though they are still conservative. More than a decade ago, IDEA would have gauged that as they worked with them and given them something that works, even if it lacks flambuoyance.

I think that they ran into one issue late in the development, which did mess up a few things for a little (even conventional) hatchback design. The 1.4 IDI turned out to be a little too tall. That is why there is such a steep slope along the bonnet to the passenger cab - leading to some lop-sided ergonomics with that large dashboard and high windscreen start, reducing road visibility significantly and resulting in some short drivers getting a crink in their neck.

The addition of wheel arches (on the V2?) was a stylistic disaster. When my friend bought a Xeta last year, he practically pleaded with Concorde motors to request Tata's to give us the original bumper and no wheel arches. Obviously they refused, apart from giving us a few incredulous looks. Those arches make a decent design look downright DUMPY.

IDEA did some pretty good corrections on the indigo design when they designed the Marina, which I think is Tata's best offering to date. But they would have done better to learn something from another car in their own showroom - the Fiat Palio Adventure. The Marina could have done with some wheel arches, roof rails (which it does), and some more 'adventure' (the noun, not the car) and 'escape' theme riggings, rather than let it be dismissed as an estate version of the indigo.

In the end, one thing that does Tata cars in, is their lack of commitment to fit and finish. Even a very good design is rendered mediocre if the build does not do justice to it. In the car market, the price and stakes are high, the eye looks for perfection, and tata cars don't even come close.
wizardofid. that was a pretty good post.

i am seriously contemplating getting the arches removed and changing both bumpers which will be required if the arches are to be removed. I wonder if the wheel wells have enough there to accept 15" rims. Will they foul or will I be OK ??

I do agree that TATA lacks the committment to raise their quality to the next level. While reliability has definitely improved, I think its high time they look to improving the fit and finish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kartikkumar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hell_rider
My other gripes about the Swift aside, I would never go for something that looks like the Swift. Too curvy / feminine for me.
really?? Does anyone else feel this way? I thought the lines on the Swift are far more masculine than most cars out there.
yes. really. my wife and sis feel that way too as do some of my friends.

I do not however, feel that way about the Mini from which the Swift has heavily borrowed. But I do feel that way about the Swift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pugram
We have an Indigo LS TDI in the family which has done 27000 kms in an year. No problems encountered till date. The engine feels rock solid (and quiet too) and delivers exceptional mileage.

It has done Chennai - Pune - Chennai trip twice, without any complaints. You just have to wait for the Turbo to kick in..
similar experience to report here on my indica tcic. close to 1.5 yrs now. just hitting 20K on the odo. few baroda / goa trips.

no problems encountered till date. touchwood.
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Old 27th May 2007, 23:25   #74
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I think the Palio previous to the first gen Indian Palio was designed by IDEA. Which is why they delayed launching it, because it looked a lot like the Indica. Not too sure though.
That is right, the Palio launch was delayed because it was very similar to the Indica since it was designed by the same company.
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Old 27th May 2007, 23:47   #75
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
I do not know about Swift's feminine lines but my wife always says she can not stand the Swift because to her it "looks like a toad on wheels"
My dad's words exactly!! Of course he said the same thing about the Santro till he drove my car and loved it. Wait till he drives my new Swift which should be coming sometime next week. heh heh heh heh....
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