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Old 31st May 2007, 11:08   #31
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This is an interesting topic. I have always thought of this when I have time.

I think the main issue which affects most Asian countries, even the developed ones like South Korea, Singapore etc is the culture part. We also fall into the same group when it comes to being raucous in nature.

In Singapore for example, having a very good infrastructure alone doesnt help the people there to "behave well". This is according to their own mentor and ex-PM. He attributes this mainly due to the cultural background of people in Asia, in Singapore its predominantly Chinese, followed by Malaysians and Indians. So the only option for him was to impose steep penalty for violation of law. The bureaucracy being quite dynamic and fair, this worked in favour for them and people are forced to follow rules. He now says that since a few generations have now lived in this kind of strict rule of law, they will slowly relax them assuming that people would have "learned few lessons" by now!

I know of cases in Malaysia where the roads were pathetic till about 10 years back. Then they decided to spend some real hard money and did a major drive to improve roads to international standards. And yes they did. But now the accident rates have increased in multiples with most of them caused due to reckless driving. Now the govt is struggling to teach the drivers some basic rules. same is going to happen/already happening in India.


Even in Europe, those who have driven in Italy will know what I am saying. In spite of being a developed nation, the people behave very similar to Indians! There is no traffic sense, very noisy, breaking rules is common place, and even they are very abusive in nature. Just cross across Alps in the north to Switzerland, its a whole new story! These guys are one of the most friendliest and almost everybody follow rules religiously. Here too they attribute the difference to culture.

But for us in India, its too big and diverse to follow suite of Singapore. It may take us many more generations, atleast about 100 more years, to "behave appropriately". And another thing being the wide divide between the haves and have-nots. This seems to be only increasing nowadays, especially in fast growing cities like Bangalore. Look at your office itself, the office boy will be paid at the most Rs 100 per day while you will be earning atleast 25 times more. This is when you are not even the boss. This divide among the populace is a real big problem. It makes these have-nots to become desparate and it will reflect in their behaviour.

You will not see such difference in pay in most developed countries. Even in US, the ratio of a Janitor's pay to that of a typical professional will be at the most 1:5. Ofcourse there are the super rich. But they are few and far in between.

Last edited by appuchan : 31st May 2007 at 11:11.
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Old 31st May 2007, 11:12   #32
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Tanveer, that was humorous. But then, you have an Indica, so the smoke treatment worked. What do the petrol brethren do?
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Old 31st May 2007, 11:17   #33
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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Tanveer, that was humorous. But then, you have an Indica, so the smoke treatment worked. What do the petrol brethren do?
reverse gear? hehe just kidding.
A good practice is to start only after 10 seconds of green light has passed. If you like heavy metal the cacophony can be music to your ears
That said can't do anything about it.
Its everywhere, on the road, off the road, in Electricity bill queues, in shops.
People don't even respect the personal space of women. My wife has solved the problem by pushing very hard or kicking anybody who comes to close. They give very confused looks on getting a shove. So over here, you have to be like Tata Safari: Make your own road.
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Old 31st May 2007, 11:29   #34
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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Tanveer, that was humorous. But then, you have an Indica, so the smoke treatment worked. What do the petrol brethren do?
U put a sub in the boot (mine is twice as big) to drown out the noise and then you behave like a dim witted sloth while changing gears and generally move forward as slowly as you can.
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Old 31st May 2007, 11:56   #35
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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
3. Pedestrian crossings : How many of them do we see? How many people use them? Try stopping at one, to let someone pass, and then be prepared to shell out cash on repairs as the person behind decides its better not to stop.
Pedestrians themselves decide to wait while the traffic light is red, and cross when the signal for vehicular traffic is green, thus causing major jams, and abuses hurled.
To add to this..there is a latest fad in Pune.
Pedestrians will just stand in the middle of
the road to cross the rest of it.
Ideally they should be crossing when
the red light is on, and vehicular
traffic is behind the Red signal.

But they want to fancy their chances
and they really don't get hurt. Its the
bikers who apply urgent brakes after
they see a group in the middle of the
road trying to cross it.

I remember 2 months back near
Paud road flyover signal.
It signalled green and a couple of
bikers went full throttle for the open
strech. 3 Women from somewhere
landed right in the middle of the road
trying to cross it after the green
(Worlds most Amazing Videos one).
Eventually, Women didn't know
to go back or forth, Biker did not
know where they will head to.
He Breaked hard and skidded
plump in the middle of the road.
The women crossed away safely!

The most difficult time for a decision
is when you are overtaking a 4 wheeler
and when you are prepared with your
gear shifts and throttle and swerve
to the right, you find a pedestrian waiting
to cross the road right in line with you.
Has this happened with anyone of you?

Boy, God save us all.
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Old 31st May 2007, 12:30   #36
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Default Education is the need of hour

Everyone is right, as most of us are exposed to the matured system abroad and most of us are trying to follow the traffic rules as much as possible. I am sure it also depends on how much patience one has. Most of the people on road are ignoring the traffic rules and we T-BHPians are trying to ignrore those people and follow the traffic rules!!! This is the big tussle we start the day and end the day with.

As most of us agree that the education on traffic is must to make sure that the next generation does not face such a situtation, but there is no thought on this by the education department.

Is there any way we can bring the traffic police and education department together to realise this make them think seriously on this big problem our country is facing? Atleast we can start this at state level? Any thoughts? Any contacts?

Let us see if we can make difference!!!
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Old 31st May 2007, 12:41   #37
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We say EDUCATION is the need of the hour but I dont think you can instill some basic common sense and courtesy with education. Educated drivers are the worst offenders.

Here in Mumbai at the Navi Mumbai Toll gates - a person stands between the lanes till about 500 meters from the toll booth to keep the vehicles in line. And the fact that he stands with a lathi helps keep the queue else its a free for all at toll booths. Everyone wants to show off his smartness by cutting across lanes and getting into the line before someone - smiling triumphantly.

As for people not respecting your private space - I have a story to tell - it might be hilarious to some but I had to do what I did.

Travelling from Mumbai to Pune on a train , I went and stood at the door when we were passing the Lonavala Ghats. A guy just came and stuck to me and he was smoking. And after a few futile & decent attempts to push him back failed, I lit a cigarette and INNOCENTLY after a few puffs BY MISTAKE just managed to jab the lit end into his trouser bang in front. Did not see him after that.
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Old 31st May 2007, 13:03   #38
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
We say EDUCATION is the need of the hour but I dont think you can instill some basic common sense and courtesy with education. Educated drivers are the worst offenders.
Agree, and common sense you are talking is just not for following traffic but day to day life. Completely agree.

But, we need to start some where. We just cant say that people around us dont have common sense and say "things will not improve for next 40 years"!!!

I am still looking for opportunity if we can do something for this. If someone has any right contacts then we the group of people can make something about it irrespective of the outcome of this effort.
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Old 31st May 2007, 13:05   #39
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Here in Mumbai at the Navi Mumbai Toll gates - a person stands between the lanes till about 500 meters from the toll booth to keep the vehicles in line. And the fact that he stands with a lathi helps keep the queue else its a free for all at toll booths. Everyone wants to show off his smartness by cutting across lanes and getting into the line before someone - smiling triumphantly.
Thats a really childish attitude. In India, a lathi in the right hands, is worth a thousand swear words. I witnessed something similar only yesterday at a traffic jam.

I have lost count of the number of times I had to tap people on the shoulder and tell them there is a queue. Some people bypass the without realising and they give me dazed look. I have never come across a case where a person didnt co-operate once they realised there was a queue.
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Old 31st May 2007, 13:27   #40
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We say EDUCATION is the need of the hour but I dont think you can instill some basic common sense and courtesy with education. Educated drivers are the worst offenders.
How true. This morning on my way to work on the car, while crossing Marathalli bridge found someone honking unnecessarily from behind. Spotted a silver Swift behind me, and the person driving was obviously associated with the IT industry- read EDUCATED (Car also had a missing wheelcap, and was dirty). Was honking for space and in the extent of doing so was literally trying to squeeze through. I increased the volume on the ICE, made sure he stayed behind throughout the journey. Had he honked in a decent manner would have let him go through. This crazy behaviour is uncalled for.

P.S. : Did i mention he was also smoking while driving?
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Old 31st May 2007, 13:39   #41
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Totally agree with Geek and good to discuss this topic on a forum like this.

Today it took me 30 mins to cross one signal in Airport road and guess what its because of 2 cars standing right before each other in an intersection. I mean whats the point, either one is not moving.

One way to improve this will be to impose "Right of way" concept like in the west.

Coming to imposing, when govt vehicles and govt buses dont adhere to any of the rules, we cant expect the puclic to obey the traffic rules. I have seen traffic police men parking their two wheelers in the middle of the road.
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Old 31st May 2007, 13:49   #42
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YOU say that our laws are too old.
The source of countless problems.

Quote:
YOU come back to the parking lot to punch your parking ticket if you have over stayed in a restaurant or a shopping mall irrespective of your status identity...In Singapore you don't say anything, DO YOU?
Actually , it is because very few dare to ... Reason is simple ... You DONT' get away with it there ... People aren't idealistic ... Their behavior patterns have been altered by years of aggressive IMPLIMENTATION of STRICT LAWS.

Quote:
YOU would not dare to speed beyond 55 mph (88 km/h) in Washington and then tell the traffic cop, 'Jaanta hai main kaun hoon (Do you know who I am?). I am so and so's son. Take your two bucks and get lost.'
Again , they don't get away with that. Here they do ... People will try all in their power to get out of it if they are allowed to.

Quote:
YOU wouldn't chuck an empty coconut shell anywhere other than the garbage pail on the beaches in Australia and New Zealand .?
Hefty fines and community service ... sounds good to you ???

People respond to incentives , positive or negative. Hence the different attitude.

I have never heard of anyone being fined for littering or spitting.
This is hardly an idealistic world . People will do what they do as long as they get away with it ... After 60 years of lawlessness , it is an absolutely irresponsible statement to make ... With strict laws , and aggressive implementation , coupled with education , the people of India could be made to shape up in a within a decade. So why don't the people responsible get down to it , instead of running away from the problem.


Quote:
In America every dog owner has to clean up after his pet has done the job. Same in Japan . Will the Indian citizen do that here?'
They are MADE TO. We are not. After 60 years of failing to set examples and give the citizens a message that the law is to be followed , placing the blame on the people of India squarely shows the incompetence of the system .

Why don't we become a part of the system and clean it up ??? Some might .. But let me ask ...

Who is the one leaving their mess behind for others to clean up ??

The present and past govt are the ones who've created the mess ... NOT THE COMMON MAN.

Last edited by Fiero : 31st May 2007 at 13:51.
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Old 31st May 2007, 15:33   #43
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We say EDUCATION is the need of the hour but I dont think you can instill some basic common sense and courtesy with education. Educated drivers are the worst offenders.
And when I said education, i meant education on traffic rules and driving. I guess this was not clear in message!
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Old 31st May 2007, 15:53   #44
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I was stopped at a busy red light in such a way that the bikers could not get between me and the divider, so they were stuck behind me.
As the timer(counting down to green) reached 10 sec, the guys behind me started honking, in short squeeks, when it reached 5 it became a synchronized cacophony of hyenas in heat, and when zero was about to come up it was mozart on LSD.
The light turned green, I did not engage first gear, but floored the pedal.
5 seconds of full throttle revving cleaned my silencer and drowned the noise, and fixed up the wanna be music directors. And then I moved forward, with not a single horny guy at my tail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
We say EDUCATION is the need of the Everyone wants to show off his smartness by cutting across lanes and getting into the line before someone - smiling triumphantly.

As for people not respecting your private space - I have a story to tell - it might be hilarious to some but I had to do what I did.

Travelling from Mumbai to Pune on a train , I went and stood at the door when we were passing the Lonavala Ghats. A guy just came and stuck to me and he was smoking. And after a few futile & decent attempts to push him back failed, I lit a cigarette and INNOCENTLY after a few puffs BY MISTAKE just managed to jab the lit end into his trouser bang in front. Did not see him after that.

You guys have a great sende of humour.

About agressive driving I have a short story to tell:

My friend used to be a bit agressive when he got his Pulsar about 3 years back. Once when he had his dad as the pillon he drove a bit rashly. Once they reached the destination, his dad got down and said " I could see only buffalos and some dogs on the road when you drove like that, who were you trying to impress?"

He was so terribly ashamed and never drove rashly (atleast with his dad at the back) after that.
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Old 31st May 2007, 16:01   #45
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Like someone said, the problem is ATTITUDE and this is not just on the roads but everywhere.

1. Stand in a line at the payment counter at Food Bazaar or Big Bazaar and there will be some woman or guy who will try and squeeze in, some squeeze in from the wrong side too i.e. go out and then shove their stuff from there. Problem is the guys at the counter entairtain this crap. The next time this happens, I am going to make a HUGE scene.

2. If you think this happens because the outlets are crowded then thats not the reason. I was at lifestyles at the payment counter. One guy in front of me paying for his stuff. I had left a bit of distance from him giving him space and privacy. Suddenly, a young girl of about 12 years old squeezes in and acts as if she is trying to look for something. As soon as the guy moves away, her parents standing closeby quietly and stealthily come and hand over the stuff to her which she promptly puts on the desk! Maybe I was in a good mood that day, but it was really funny!

3. I have seen this happen TWICE at the Vashi toll plaza. Once at 11.30 PM and the other time at 9.30PM. Those who are regulars will know that during peak hours or heavy traffic times, the right most lane of the traffic moving towards Navi Mumbai/Lonavala/Pune is closed and the traffic going towards Mumbai is diverted into that lane for faster clearing of the swelling traffic. Some oversmart drivers on these two occasions drove into the lane but weren't satisfied with getting JUST one lane for themselves. So they take over the next and the next and the next lanes too! Mind you this wasn't one car in each lane scene. Once one vehicle did that, there was a flurry and I could see everyone frantically changing lanes and rushing behind the "leaders". From taxi's to Accords to buses and trucks, everyone took over the opposite lanes and blocked out the traffic moving towards Navi Mumbai and Pune. Result, no one was going anywhere including these smart a-holes. This is a attitude problem that no amount of education or economic developement can instill.

I shudder to think whats going to happen in 12 months on our roads.
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