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Old 31st August 2010, 23:07   #136
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I think the Scorpio pick up will become successful as a simple & cheap alternative to its rivals. But I do not think the SUV guise would be a good idea, its best to wait for the global SUV to come out.
This Global SUV is a monocoque front wheel drive based cross-over, right now that segment is too crowded and has some really accomplished candidates.
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Old 1st September 2010, 01:50   #137
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This Global SUV is a monocoque front wheel drive based cross-over, right now that segment is too crowded and has some really accomplished candidates.
I agree, but then Mahindra will come exclusively with diesel engine, micro hybrid, etc. which would be the differentiation in overseas markets. I still think it would be a good package.
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Old 1st September 2010, 10:08   #138
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I agree, but then Mahindra will come exclusively with diesel engine, micro hybrid, etc. which would be the differentiation in overseas markets. I still think it would be a good package.
Yes but sadly Diesel is an unwanted undesirable differentiator in the USA market space. They prefer large petrols.
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Old 1st September 2010, 10:21   #139
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Yes but sadly Diesel is an unwanted undesirable differentiator in the USA market space. They prefer large petrols.
But that perception has started to change since a while ago. Thanks to the clean burning diesels of VW, BlueTecs of Mercedes for last few years. With Ford also coming in with super duty diesels, IMO market is increasing for diesels especially due to fuel economy and the increase in torque is also added bonus.

Obviously, this is my opinion. And I also feel Mahindra would do well in USA will diesel engines in the segment they are going to be in, which is rugged diesel vehicles at entry level petrol prices.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 10:08   #140
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Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
I agree, but then Mahindra will come exclusively with diesel engine, micro hybrid, etc. which would be the differentiation in overseas markets. I still think it would be a good package.
We have to understand that the target market for a cheap, diesel pick-up and that for an urban front-wheel-drive SUV are completely different.

There is a ready market available in the States for a small sized and robust diesel pickup. The target customer is either occupied in rural / agricultural sectors or is a small business owner. This market doesn't care about product finesse. All they want is a VFM truck that can do the job. The Mahindra Pickup is well-suited to this workaholic role. There isn't any competition either. Toyota & Ford have long abandoned this segment. Mahindra can play the A+ reputation that its tractors have built in rural America.

The front-wheel-drive MUV / SUV, on the other hand, is targetted completely at the urban customer. Not only does he have a plethora of options (from better known brands), but also his expectations of fit, finish and finesse will not be met by Mahindra. Since you mentioned micro-hybrid, let me also add that there is nothing hybrid about this technology. And start-stop has little advantage in freeway-dominated America.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 10:24   #141
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I don't understand why fellow members are talking about Mahindra's quality. Understood that Scorpio's quality is few years behind the international competitors, but Mahindra is very well known with farmers in USA and has created reputation of reliable product. At the same time, USA does not have any diesel pickup in small light truck category, which will be Mahindra's USP. And going back to 80's, Hyundai and up to certain extent Toyota did the same thing: Entered into US market with substandard product (at that time) with no reputation as a car maker but they evolved themselves into reputed one now. Mahindra is following similar strategy. IMO, it will not be a huge success but it will give Mahindra an exposure to developed market.
+1 to that. This is good entry strategy with adjacency factor in form of common target customer base - according to existing product portfolio. Only if they get the reliability right, and get some decent distributor network in place. Will they be able to use Ssangyong's network? For the Urban SUVc, Merc engine-powered SUVs are there and more are coming up from Ssangyong and Mahindra. Recall Mr Goenka saying that upcoming platform from both companies have similarities and opportunities to cross-leverage on each other.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 10:57   #142
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Really good progress by Mahindra. They seem to have chalked out a definite plan and are targeting the right consumers for gaining a foothold.
They are carrying the reliable tractor story to their pick ups and basic SUVs. They will carry forth this trust to higher segments. Something that TATA doesn't understand or get it.

Whoever is heading the strategy in Mahindra, Kudos.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 11:28   #143
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We need to understand one thing, when M&M will export vehicles to US, the quality will be improved. I have seen this with Tata. Cars exported are better in quality & better in fit & finish. M&M will do the same. Already they are good in quality, in US they will improve it further. They know very well that, in US they have to give better quality only. Else they will be in trouble.

Anyways my best wishes for Mahindra. I know they will do better
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Old 2nd September 2010, 11:55   #144
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My PM was an ex M&M senior engineer with the Hybrid vehicle/Alternate energy team (don't quite remember the exact name).
He was a part of the team there in the US testing out the Scorpio sometime back. It seems like they were facing a tough time to meet the emission standards there.

Last edited by jeeva : 2nd September 2010 at 12:00.
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Old 9th September 2010, 23:50   #145
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Some info about the Mahindra-GV court case.

Global Vehicles USA Says Mahindra Delayed Truck Certification to Void Contract - PickupTrucks.com News

If what Mr.Perez says is true, then what Mahindra is doing is unethical.
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Old 10th September 2010, 02:51   #146
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
We have to understand that the target market for a cheap, diesel pick-up and that for an urban front-wheel-drive SUV are completely different.

There is a ready market available in the States for a small sized and robust diesel pickup. The target customer is either occupied in rural / agricultural sectors or is a small business owner. This market doesn't care about product finesse. All they want is a VFM truck that can do the job. The Mahindra Pickup is well-suited to this workaholic role. There isn't any competition either. Toyota & Ford have long abandoned this segment. Mahindra can play the A+ reputation that its tractors have built in rural America.

The front-wheel-drive MUV / SUV, on the other hand, is targetted completely at the urban customer. Not only does he have a plethora of options (from better known brands), but also his expectations of fit, finish and finesse will not be met by Mahindra. Since you mentioned micro-hybrid, let me also add that there is nothing hybrid about this technology. And start-stop has little advantage in freeway-dominated America.
Over the last few years more and more car manufacturers are offering start-stop technologies for the "gas economy conscious" american customers. In india the concern is to especially save the money, but in america if I understand correctly these technologies are branded "green" and more people go for just that. Money savings is an add-on bonus. In the last few years manufacturers like Mazda, BMW, chrysler, mercedes, land rovers, etc. have either delivered or still researching on start-stop technologies for NA vehicles.
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Old 24th September 2010, 19:24   #147
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new development in the fight
Global Vehicles USA to Attempt $35 Million Order for Mahindra Pickups - PickupTrucks.com News
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Old 26th September 2010, 20:01   #148
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
There is nothing to be gained by talking negatively about Mahindra's foray in the US. Like some members have mentioned, this is the only way to make a mark in the international market. True, Mahindra's current products are not world class, but neither were the Kia's, the Hyundai's (recent examples). Until very recently, driving Kia's was as bad as getting kicked in the shins.

I wish Mahindra well in its endevour and I'm cautiously optimistic that if they can get the reliability right, they do stand a chance.

Agreed, there is nothing to be gained from being negative. I am not being negative at all, in fact seeing M&M or any Indian company successful in the international market would be fantastic.

Don't confuse my realistic assessment & understanding of the US auto market for negativity against a desi brand. In my belief, it is always good to do a critical analysis rather than end up with a forum that is a mutual admiration society.

There is already a very large market in the US for heavy duty diesel trucks (typically 6 to 7 liter displacement). The reason for this, is that the nature of a diesel engine is naturally suited for this type of application due to the torque characteristics and rugged & economical nature of diesels. These criteria outweigh the negative issues such as noise, smoke, high capital cost, poor performance, heavy weight, etc. for the heavy duty market. For the light duty market (which is much bigger) gasoline engines are more suitable.

Toyota, Ford, & GM, have numerous small diesel engines that they sell all over the world. However, almost non of these are in the US. Why? For the reasons mentioned above.

I do not for one second believe that M&M has a brilliant concept in the Scorpio that will fill an unserved niche in the US market. Chances are that this foray into the US will be a big time corporate blunder that will end up being a standard B school study of what not to do.

But I should also point out that Ford and GM are planning to roll out smaller capacity diesel pickup trucks that will be cost competitive with potential M&M offerings, but with engineering and quality 2 generations ahead.
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Old 3rd October 2010, 20:40   #149
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A new update on the USA Today website:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...N.htm?csp=Cars

Some blogs that sound interesting here on the USA Today website:-

"we don't need any more imports"???, "keep our jobs here"??? This is exactly what we need. If American car companies would put a 4cyl diesel that gets 30mpg in a compact pickup I would love to support them, but they refuse to do it. I would buy this truck in a heart beat. I have been waiting for exactly this for years, and maybe, just maybe it will force American companies to build a similar truck. Good competition is exactly what we need!"

"Mahindra builds tractors in the US, and I suspect if the truck sells well they will start building it here as well.
I would consider buying a US-built Mahindra before a Canadian-built Ford or Mexican-built Dodge."

"There is no way this vehicle will make it in the US. The demand for these would be so high that they couldn't keep them in stock nor make enough. Therefore there would always be no vehicles on the dealer lots. I don't think either of these companies realize what will happen.
Auto companies "think" they know what American's want. Put this truck on the market and and then you'd see the Big 4 come out with 1/2 ton pickups, suvs and small cars with small diesels. Yes, VW and Mercedes have them, but you can't really tow/haul with these either. IMO."

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 3rd October 2010 at 20:47.
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Old 3rd October 2010, 22:48   #150
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While the idea of a small economical diesel pick up in the US is appealing, the Scorpio would be the wrong option. The car is outdated in India let alone in the US. The critics especially will have a field day with its shortcomings and will be tough for Mahindra to fix such a reputation.

The best option will be to wait for its upcoming SUV and perhaps a pick up on the same platform. As it will be launched in the near future there shouldn't be any significant sales lost.
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