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Old 26th March 2009, 08:05   #61
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Fact is, common rail diesels are cleaner, quieter and more powerful by default. While BS-III norm can be achieved without common rail technology by simply fitting turbo or exhaust gas recirculation systems to old generation diesel engines (as evidenced by Indica, Tata Ace, Sumo Victa), BS-IV emission requires the use of common rail. If BS-IV were achievable without using expensive CRDI technology, manufacturers wouldn't bother to invest in it.

Incidentally, as of now, no diesel vehicle in India is fitted with particulate matter filter since the prevalent BS-III norm can be met without using such filters.

Fact is we are discussing U.S market. Their emissions do not distinguish petrol and diesel (for the new standards)
Clean diesel is one which has the same emissions as petrol. All Common rail engines are not equal too. For the size of engine that Mahindra is introducing VW (or any other 4 cylinder diesels from Germans) does not even need Urea treatment.
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Old 26th March 2009, 09:12   #62
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We want to kill the child before its birth!!! with all due respect, if the american company knew what american people wanted and thats what was built, I am sure they would not have faced the situation they are in right now.
you actually prove my point. American companies are trying to push what they make, instead of what the public wants to buy. so the public buys Toyotas and Hondas and Detroit is left in the position of having to discount its cars even when they are very good.

The american car companies made the best cars in the world in the 1950s and 1960s (with extremely few exceptions like Jaguar). But then in the 1970s, the oil crisis hit at the same time as the Japanese figured out how to improve car quality and design in a radical way. American manufacturers, instead of quickly and immediately adapting, they kept insisting on continuing to do what they had always done. End result, Toyota and Honda and Nissan and other kicked their butt.

I think Indians don't understand the history of the failure of car companies in the US that tried to sell what they made, instead of giving the market what it wants, or even better, leading the market so that it resets its standards by your offerings.

Hyundai's brand has still not recovered from the trauma of the Hyundai Excel.

Daewoo failed in the US market. Kia has not succeeded. Peugeot failed and exited the market. Renault failed and exited. SAAB has failed too. Fiat failed and left the market. Alfa Romeo failed and left. Rover failed and left the market. Lancia failed in the market and withdrew. Daihatsu failed and withdrew. lets not even talk about Yugo.

This is a damn tough market. If you just waltz in here with turd blossom of a product, you're going to get your teeth kicked in. If you're lucky, you'll sell a few and be happy, but you will not recover for decades from the impressions you set in the beginning.
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Old 26th March 2009, 10:19   #63
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Thats very good observation. Its consumer driven economy after all. I think this applies to Indian market too.
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Old 26th March 2009, 10:34   #64
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Doesnt apply too well to the Indian market because we hardly have a choice and the Indian market is definitely seller driven with consumer activism being taken up in bits and pieces.

A product recall in the US can kill a company. Ever heard of product recalls in India?
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Old 26th March 2009, 11:35   #65
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Mahindra is not only inching into US,but all over the world.Imagine the export market of Xylo.The name itself is westernised nomenclature.
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Old 26th March 2009, 12:18   #66
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Mahindra is not only inching into US,but all over the world.Imagine the export market of Xylo.The name itself is westernised nomenclature.
With in two months of its launch in India, it has already reached the African shores. Read more here:

http://www.mahindra.co.za/

Honestly speaking, I didnt like the write up about the Xlyo. They need to hire better PR folks!
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Old 26th March 2009, 16:18   #67
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Mahindra is not only inching into US,but all over the world.Imagine the export market of Xylo.The name itself is westernised nomenclature.
There is a huge difference between entering a market and selling something there.

M&M's distributor (Global Vehicles) had plans to spend US$60 million in the first year on national, regional co-op and local advertising. However, that was before the present financial crisis and the sharp decline in vehicle sales in the US. AFAIK, M&M's plans seems to be delayed because of the above.
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Old 26th March 2009, 18:14   #68
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Daewoo failed in the US market. Kia has not succeeded. Peugeot failed and exited the market. Renault failed and exited. SAAB has failed too. Fiat failed and left the market. Alfa Romeo failed and left. Rover failed and left the market. Lancia failed in the market and withdrew. Daihatsu failed and withdrew. lets not even talk about Yugo.
Oh, I forgot about Citroen. Another company that didn't survive in the US market. The last citroen to be sold in the US, the XM sold less than 20 units in 3 years. No Citroens have been sold in the US since then.

Last edited by Harbir : 26th March 2009 at 18:26.
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Old 27th March 2009, 15:32   #69
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Oh, I forgot about Citroen. Another company that didn't survive in the US market. The last citroen to be sold in the US, the XM sold less than 20 units in 3 years. No Citroens have been sold in the US since then.
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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post

Daewoo failed in the US market. Kia has not succeeded. Peugeot failed and exited the market. Renault failed and exited. SAAB has failed too. Fiat failed and left the market. Alfa Romeo failed and left. Rover failed and left the market. Lancia failed in the market and withdrew. Daihatsu failed and withdrew. lets not even talk about Yugo.

This is a damn tough market. If you just waltz in here with turd blossom of a product, you're going to get your teeth kicked in. If you're lucky, you'll sell a few and be happy, but you will not recover for decades from the impressions you set in the beginning.
All the markets are tough till the time you hit the right tone. Plus there are so many Indians in USA that they would be more than willing to buy the Mahindra Product! Jokes apart, Statistically speaking, Americans prefer everything Indian and Indians, everything American.

We love to travel in big flashy cars when we go to USA, and they want to travel in Puny Bajaj ricks when they come here. And Yes, Indian things are popular world over (Nano, IT, Masalas etc), let Mahindras cash in over the Indian tag. Lastly, we Indians have the never give up attitude. In the examples you have quoted below are all French companies and they love to shut their shops world over. Don't even talk about Peugeot!
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Old 27th March 2009, 16:02   #70
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Originally Posted by amtak View Post

We love to travel in big flashy cars when we go to USA, and they want to travel in Puny Bajaj ricks when they come here. And Yes, Indian things are popular world over (Nano, IT, Masalas etc), let Mahindras cash in over the Indian tag.
Well, heard of the adage, when in rome - do as the romans do? Most Indian's dont really get there as far local cuisine is concerned and still hunt for that Indian restaurant in whichever part of the world they are in. But we're digressing here.
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Old 27th March 2009, 16:10   #71
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Agree with you that we are digressing here. However, how can one judge whether the company will taste success or not even before it lands on the US soil?

Btw, has anyone ever heard about NASCAR? American's favorite motor sport? Mahindra is a part of it now and whats a better way of getting more publicity now? Millions of it watch it on the race circuit and on TV.

I guess my edited post just answered all your questions.
Attached Thumbnails
Wow! Is Mahindra silently making its way into the USA? EDIT: Got EPA go-ahead Pg. 9-mahindraracingwallpaperracecar1280x1024.jpg  


Last edited by amtak : 27th March 2009 at 16:17.
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Old 27th March 2009, 16:15   #72
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Agree with you that we are digressing here. However, how can one judge whether the company will taste success or not even before it lands on the US soil?
By the way they run their marketing, their experience thus far in other developed markets, and their own experience in their home markets.

As far as their Indian marketing goes, very well tuned to Indians. Seen the latest Scorp ad? I hate it. But well tuned for Indians.

As far as their experience in other developed markets goes - like in South Africa - they are as shoddy as the TATA's. M&M dealers are selling about 3 vehicles a month (though a lot can be attributed to the current market condition - still its no excuse).

Thirdly, their experience in the home market has been good because of fantastic protectionary measures by the Indian government until recently. Vanquish import duties and introduce compulsive safety norms, and what have you?

Remember, TATA introducing the NANO was a game-changer. You do not seem them talking about taking the gasoline Indica to Europe or the states. They are talking electric. Mahindra is not a game-changer in the US. If you want to enter the developed market, how will you differentiate yourself? Thats the key.

Last edited by Red Liner : 27th March 2009 at 16:21.
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Old 27th March 2009, 16:34   #73
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If you want to enter the developed market, how will you differentiate yourself? Thats the key.
Being Affordable is the name of the game. Plus, their engines are good enough to survive in the US market. All they need to work at is the ergonomics. I am sure they would consider it.
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Old 27th March 2009, 16:47   #74
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Being Affordable is the name of the game. Plus, their engines are good enough to survive in the US market. All they need to work at is the ergonomics. I am sure they would consider it.
Being affordable is a requirement to survive. Not a differentiator. If you are a mass market producer, you cant price yourself like a Ferrari.

All they need to work on is ergonomics?! Sheesh!! Looks like your love for anything Mahindra has blinded you.

Heard of Tesla Motors? Now they are a game-changer. A true differentiator. Mahindra is not premium, they are cheap. If they are cheap, then their service and quality has got to be mind blowing. Like a Toyota or a Honda. Are you trying to tell us that you equate these auto manufacturers? God, M&M cant put down an auto tranny right first time around. Their existing Gboxes look like out of a truck from the 70's. They stick towards the corner just like in my Willy's.

'nuff said. Like I said earlier - my luck to them.
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Old 27th March 2009, 16:54   #75
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Heard of Tesla Motors? Now they are a game-changer. A true differentiator. Mahindra is not premium, they are cheap. If they are cheap, then their service and quality has got to be mind blowing. Like a Toyota or a Honda. Are you trying to tell us that you equate these auto manufacturers? God, M&M cant put down an auto tranny right first time around. Their existing Gboxes look like out of a truck from the 70's. They stick towards the corner just like in my Willy's.

'nuff said. Like I said earlier - my luck to them.
Yes, I have heard of Tesla and their roadster. Well, I am not a die hard mahindra fan. I like Sumo Grande more than the Xylo. But, what I know is Mahindra have better quality control than TATA, fit and finish of their vehicles is at par with most companies. Haven't really heard of any issues (with the exception of 1 or 2) about their dealerships where as we have a lot of stories to tell when it comes to TATA/TOYOTA/HONDA dealerships and service centers.

They are not specialists with auto tranny, but they are learning that as well. All I am saying is give them a chance.
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