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Old 29th October 2007, 16:51   #91
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Originally Posted by kishorekapoor View Post
How Is The Performance Of Verna Diesel Vis A Vis Fiesta.
NO COMPARISON THERE!!!

Verna D can smoke Fiesta D any day in a straight line where as if on a track it maybe other way round because Verna handling is like Boat.

But if you want to compare Verna D and Fiesta 1.6 P then the competition heats up. Verna = king when it comes to in gear acceleration. From stand still it will take off faster than Fiesta 1.6 P until 2nd gear. But but but 3rd gear @ fiesta 1.6 P is just beast. Every Verna will think what passed them in a jiffy . And when it comes to handling Fiesta is King in its segment.
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Old 29th October 2007, 17:04   #92
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Originally Posted by abhibh View Post

But if you want to compare Verna D and Fiesta 1.6 P then the competition heats up. Verna = king when it comes to in gear acceleration. From stand still it will take off faster than Fiesta 1.6 P until 2nd gear. But but but 3rd gear @ fiesta 1.6 P is just beast. Every Verna will think what passed them in a jiffy . And when it comes to handling Fiesta is King in its segment.
Interesting quote vis-a-vis performance of the verna diesel and the fiesta petrol. Autocar puts the 0-100 dash of verna at 11.23secs, and the fiesta at 11.43 secs. Overdrive also states verna diesel to have quicker 0-100 than fiesta petrol. So does Topgear.
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Old 30th October 2007, 02:42   #93
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This is a long thread and you gentlemen have touched on all the practical reasons for going diesel so I'll give you an artsy one. I just love the sound of a sweet running powerful diesel, preferably one with a little turbo whistle to it. It is music to my ears.
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Old 30th October 2007, 06:01   #94
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@Vibsez - That is because the Verna Diesel is faster in 1st and 2nd Gear. Both these cars would be doing 90s in second gear and that gives the Verna an advantage. However, once you shift into third, i am pretty sure the Fiesta would reduce the gap and eventually beat the Verna.
The Fiesta won't straight away beat the Verna when 3rd gear is slotted but will take its time and it will be a gradual decrease in the gap.
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Old 30th October 2007, 06:55   #95
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Originally Posted by swathyd View Post
It depends on your usage and requirements. If you use less than 750 kms/ month you can go for petrol. But if you are somebody who covers over 1000 then you should go for diesel.
What if you use something between 750 & 1000 kms/ month?
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Old 30th October 2007, 08:32   #96
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I booked Getz Diesel(CRDi),BECAUSE

1.CRDI pollutes less.(Big picture-Global warming/pollution)
2.CRDI performes better than petrol sibling anytime.(Driving pleasure)
3.Total cost of ownership for CRDI is less than petrol if you plan to use the car say beyond 3 years/25000km.

Anju
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Old 30th October 2007, 11:27   #97
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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
@Vibsez - That is because the Verna Diesel is faster in 1st and 2nd Gear. Both these cars would be doing 90s in second gear and that gives the Verna an advantage. However, once you shift into third, i am pretty sure the Fiesta would reduce the gap and eventually beat the Verna.
The Fiesta won't straight away beat the Verna when 3rd gear is slotted but will take its time and it will be a gradual decrease in the gap.
Source Autocar:-

0-140kmh
Verna diesel 21.49secs
Fiesta petrol 22.06secs

Not much of a difference!
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Old 23rd July 2009, 20:13   #98
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Default Diesels: Pre-Conceived Notions or Facts?

I have been doing my bit of research for a car of my dreams, and somehow, the first 4 cars out of a list of 5 is a diesel.
The river of torque, and the rush associated with it have me sold. The economy aspect is also quite a draw.
Some queries have been troubling me since days, and I thought, I should ask here.

PLEASE KEEP THE HYUNDAI I2O CRDI IN MIND WHEN ANSWERING ALL QUESTIONS. WILL HELP IN MAKING A LOT OF CHOICES!

Can a new-age diesel car be treated like a petrol car?
Is it a myth or is it a fact that diesels need a larger amount of daily running that petrols. If I have a daily run of 5-7 km only, then why is a diesel not recommended. Is it detrimental to the engine? What are the ill-effects (if any) of owning a new-age diesel and NOT driving it over a distance of more than, say 10 km a day? Can't a diesel car be treated like a petrol car and be driven over short distances everyday? I went to the maruti showroom a year back, and Dad had almost decided to lay his cheque down on the Swift Dzire DDIS, when suddenly the brightspark salesman said, "Saar, if you have less running, then please buy petrol (to sell his ever increasing stock of Petrols that the public just refused to buy)"
We walked out of the showroom thinking, and eventually didn't return, since he embedded this fact into dad's head. I personally feel this is not applicable for the diesel engines of today. And if I am right, then the sales exec just lost a fat cheque of 8 lacs for the car we were almost going to drive out with!

Are new-age diesels MORE expensive to maintain than their petrol counterparts?
Is it a myth, or is it a fact, that diesels need more maintenance than petrols? Is it also true, that, say 3 years down the line, if a petrol and a diesel (both maintained at the same service station in the same way and having identical mileage) are compared, the service costs of the diesel will be higher?

Is it worth spending MORE on a diesel just for the fun-factor?
Economically, it's not going to make much of a benefit to me, since the extra money I spend on procuring the diesel will NOT be covered in running costs over buying a petrol, since I do not make long trips daily.

Will I be spending JUST the initial extra lac (markup cost) over the petrol? Or is there more to it? I mean, will there be higher overheads with the diesel engine, even if I use it in the same manner I do with my present petrol cars?

Do spare parts and consumables for diesel engines cost considerably more than that of Petrol engines?

Do diesel cars (new-age, again) need more attention to the suspension than their petrol counterparts after a period of time?

ONE last question: Does anyone think I am a nutjob for spending more on a diesel JUST so I can ride rivers of torque, potter around at low speeds in absurdly high gears and make the occasional frantic highway run once in a month? Am I justified? Or is Dad right? That Diesels are for people who make runs of 30-50 km a day, and if you dont run a diesel engine as much as that, the engine will cease or get 'clogged'. I am perplexed.

The heart wants to rule, but the minds needs to be cleared out before the heart gets to play it's part!
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Old 23rd July 2009, 20:29   #99
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The price difference between Diesel and petrol car will be justified in running costs and better resale value.

Examples
1.My 1 year old swift vdi abs 2008 fetched me almost 4.70 with accesories,whereas new one costs 5.20ex showroom ggn. mileage ~28k kms
2.My 2002 Indica DLS fetched me 1.5lakhs in nov 2007,ex showroom price when new3.65lac. mileage ~135k kms

Both cars saved me atleast 50%fuel cost and were sold the same day i decided to sell.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 20:29   #100
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Well I'm not an expert. But I gathered the following knowledge from the forum:
Quote:
Can a new-age diesel car be treated like a petrol car? If I have a daily run of 5-7 km only, then why is a diesel not recommended. Is it detrimental to the engine? What are the ill-effects (if any) of owning a new-age diesel and NOT driving it over a distance of more than, say 10 km a day? Can't a diesel car be treated like a petrol car and be driven over short distances everyday?
IMO yes a new age diesel car can be used just like a petrol car. Actually for lesser runs diesel cars are not recommended purely on the basis of economy - as the car in the petrol version will cost you less. Most people buy diesel car for economy. But, if running is very low - it is not economical. Actually frequent short run is harmful to a car - any car.

Quote:
Are new-age diesels MORE expensive to maintain than their petrol counterparts?
Yes diesel maintenance cost is higher than a petrol car. Although not very high.

Quote:
Is it worth spending MORE on a diesel just for the fun-factor?
Economically, it's not going to make much of a benefit to me, since the extra money I spend on procuring the diesel will NOT be covered in running costs over buying a petrol, since I do not make long trips daily.
Will I be spending JUST the initial extra lac (markup cost) over the petrol? Or is there more to it? I mean, will there be higher overheads with the diesel engine, even if I use it in the same manner I do with my present petrol cars?
IMO yes. It's just economy. In the long run a diesel car may require a engine overhaul or suspension work earlier than a petrol car of same model.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 21:00   #101
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not sure if a diesel will like frequent short runs. diesels drink more juice every time they start, hence their bigger batteries. if your runs are short (both in time and distance), then the battery might not like it much

Yes, service costs of a diesel will be higher. in parts, and consumables.

Even among diesels, the i20 CRDI commands a big premium over the corresponding petrol.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 21:10   #102
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The whole problem is the wrong notion that somehow petrols are FUN to drive. If fun is holding a particular RPM through the gears, be my friend. This hooligan biker LOVES revs. And the national engine sucks at that job.

Secondly, its torque steer.

Then, for a Mumbaikar, its another pain that this baby doesnt move below 10 kph AT ALL. Today gurgaon had oodles of water everywhere. But cyclists still dont learn, heck they now rule the road. I'm going through massive amounts of water, barely below my exhaust (was the same for the vdi ahead of me). And an idiot cuts across. I can't slow down below 10 - so I put into neutral and rev the engine like mad.

If I was a petrol? I'd just ease that weeeeee bit off the accelerator.

But anyway, diesel lust cannot be cured except by blowing up cash - most posters on this thread will just air their notions - you go ahead consummate your dieselust

PS: I'd vote with your dad
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Old 23rd July 2009, 21:26   #103
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Frank you will pay over 1.24 lakhs more over a petrol sibling of the same make and model (including swift)

Now lets say you run 250 kms a month, each km at diesel costs excluding maintenance and replacement costs (tyres, oil, clutch etc) is at approx as follows

Vdi - Swift/Ritz 15kms per litre of diesel in Bombay say 34.45 rupees per litre that gives you 2.30 rupees per km, say you travel 250 = fuel costs are 575 a month, across three years assuming no increase in diesel prices you will spend 20700/- on fuel.

i20 diesel/Getz diesel say 14kms per litre diesel. which is 2.46 per km x 250 = 615 per month across three years 22140/-

I would say that across three years which is a reasonable turn around for a diesel car. Now post the 3 years you will have accelerated wear and tear such as your clutch plate again which is higher priced than a petrol.

Again you need to have a decent stretch of road for the vehicle to be at an operating temperature level for regular running, remember diesels have higher density engines and have far more metal than a petrol engine, now as we all know there is a coefficient of expansion for metal, if you continue running diesels before their optimal running temperature be it modern or in this case even more so for an ancient diesel you will have accelerated wear of the piston rings,liners etc.

You have spent 1.25 lakhs extra as against a petrol car (i am taking the i20 diesel as a benchmark here). Whether the car will hold its resale is yet to be seen. Even if you look at it from an economical standpoint it does not hold any reason to have a car for very short distances.

These are my two cents, i could be wrong on the wear and tear part of the diesels. Again, if water enters a diesel engine, its an assured overhaul.

Until you move to BMW 3 series diesels or Mercedes 200 series and beyond where the costs of diesel and petrol models are nearly the same, its not going to help you save money or make it a financially appealing proposition.

Cheers
M

Last edited by mmmjgm : 23rd July 2009 at 21:33.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 21:30   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Can a new-age diesel car be treated like a petrol car?
Diesels take frequent short runs the same as petrol cars - badly. Short runs are classified as extreme running conditions by manufacturers because the engine doesn't get a chance to run the majority of the distance in the proper heat band.

The logic behind getting petrols for low mileage users is because the premium you have to pay for the diesel. Sometimes, an absurd number of kilometers have to be run in a diesel for it to make financial sense, especially cars with high maintenance costs (read Euros).

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Are new-age diesels MORE expensive to maintain than their petrol counterparts?
In a word, true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Is it a myth, or is it a fact, that diesels need more maintenance than petrols? Is it also true, that, say 3 years down the line, if a petrol and a diesel (both maintained at the same service station in the same way and having identical mileage) are compared, the service costs of the diesel will be higher?
You are correct. Diesels generally have more expensive service bills.


Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Do spare parts and consumables for diesel engines cost considerably more than that of Petrol engines?
Oh hell yes. Common rail components, God forbid something happen to them, will blow a king size hole in your pocket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Do diesel cars (new-age, again) need more attention to the suspension than their petrol counterparts after a period of time?
I don't think so. I think people get this impression because diesels are generally run a lot more than their petrol cars. So, over a period of time, suspension maintenance becomes a frequent necessity, not because of the engine per se, more because of the higher running the less costly fuel affords.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
ONE last question: Does anyone think I am a nutjob for spending more on a diesel JUST so I can ride rivers of torque, potter around at low speeds in absurdly high gears and make the occasional frantic highway run once in a month? Am I justified? Or is Dad right? That Diesels are for people who make runs of 30-50 km a day, and if you dont run a diesel engine as much as that, the engine will cease or get 'clogged'. I am perplexed.

The heart wants to rule, but the minds needs to be cleared out before the heart gets to play it's part!
Rubbish. Engines are... in some ways infinitely more rugged than we give them credit for. And in some ways, infinitely more fragile (f. ex., water ingestion). Your dad, no offence to the man, I think, still lives in the old era of diesels when they were literally oil burners.

In my opinion, let your heart rule. If you were a sensible person, you wouldn't have spent lakhs upon lakhs on ICE. You would've invested the money or did something similarly sensible with it. You can't have fun all your life.

Run with it while you can.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 23rd July 2009 at 21:32.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 22:35   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
PLEASE KEEP THE HYUNDAI I2O CRDI IN MIND WHEN ANSWERING ALL QUESTIONS. WILL HELP IN MAKING A LOT OF CHOICES!

I have a Swift thats run 52.5k kms. So my answers based on that.


Can a new-age diesel car be treated like a petrol car?
Is it a myth or is it a fact that diesels need a larger amount of daily running that petrols. If I have a daily run of 5-7 km only, then why is a diesel not recommended.

No, the engine does not NEED more running. But once you buy a diesel, running increases automatically. You don't think about the running cost of the car at all and tend to use it more often. At least, thats what happened with me.


Are new-age diesels MORE expensive to maintain than their petrol counterparts?
Is it a myth, or is it a fact, that diesels need more maintenance than petrols? Is it also true, that, say 3 years down the line, if a petrol and a diesel (both maintained at the same service station in the same way and having identical mileage) are compared, the service costs of the diesel will be higher?

A definite Yes. Though the difference has now come down drastically. I would put the estimate to be roughly 1.5 times of a petrol cost.


Is it worth spending MORE on a diesel just for the fun-factor?
Economically, it's not going to make much of a benefit to me, since the extra money I spend on procuring the diesel will NOT be covered in running costs over buying a petrol, since I do not make long trips daily.

Will I be spending JUST the initial extra lac (markup cost) over the petrol? Or is there more to it? I mean, will there be higher overheads with the diesel engine, even if I use it in the same manner I do with my present petrol cars?


Nopes, I would not have done the same. There are enough petrols in the market to give you the oooommpphh and the fun factor.


Do spare parts and consumables for diesel engines cost considerably more than that of Petrol engines?

They do. The oil filter for the swift D costs 375 compared to 100 (not sure) for the petrol. Diesel filter is changed every 20k (cost 1200) compared to 40k for petrol and the likes.

Do diesel cars (new-age, again) need more attention to the suspension than their petrol counterparts after a period of time?

I don't know.

ONE last question: Does anyone think I am a nutjob for spending more on a diesel JUST so I can ride rivers of torque, potter around at low speeds in absurdly high gears and make the occasional frantic highway run once in a month? Am I justified? Or is Dad right? That Diesels are for people who make runs of 30-50 km a day, and if you dont run a diesel engine as much as that, the engine will cease or get 'clogged'. I am perplexed.


I think you are a nutjob, but only because there is just no economic sense to buy a diesel for you.


The heart wants to rule, but the minds needs to be cleared out before the heart gets to play it's part!
I would have bought with the head. My comments in bold !!
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