Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th August 2007, 10:48   #136
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 154
Thanked: Once
Default

If Feb/Mar is a peak sale season, so is the month of Sept and the festive season. But going by what is happening in the automobile sector things could be looked at differently. The market is witnessing a slow down, but this has not made the companies postpone launches. Infact as per todays newspaper those companies who have launched new offerings during this period have gained while others have witnessed degrowth. Muruti with Zen & SX4. Honda with Civic. GM with Spark etc. if I were a head of a company that has seen degrowth for the last 2 qts. then I would launch a new product ASAP and not wait till Feb/Mar next year (PROVIDED i HAVE A NEW PRODUCT READY), as with the help of this new product I could acheive my targets for the year. Instead of showing loss. The earlier I launch the new product the better for me. Just another side to the argument.
Country Road is offline  
Old 10th August 2007, 11:20   #137
HSV
BHPian
 
HSV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 327
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Just to remind you guys, the current model (with the 43 changes ) came out around March 2006. So does that give us a clue or does that confuse us further, because all news articles have been crying hoarse for a September 07 release - latest one being the article in Financial Express on 21st June 07?
HSV is offline  
Old 13th August 2007, 17:42   #138
BHPian
 
Monster_BHP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: chennai
Posts: 188
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Does anyone think the new Engine will be a good one? I doubt that it will be a reliable work horse. Because getting 180bhp and close to 300NM torque out of a 5cylinder 3000CC engine, sounds like it will be primarily driven by very high compression ratio which is aided by a big turbo.

Any engine with too much turbo and artificially pumped in like that will have a low life cycle because the rings, piston and valves will get worn out pretty fast. This is the reason people go for more cylinders to increase the power out put safely and reliably. An naturally aspired engine has far more life than a artificially aspiring engine and this corresponds to the power of the turbo. More powerful the turbo less the engine life.

Even if it does get realized we would have to wait for at least a year or 40,000 km which ever come first to see the troubles in the design.

Moreover is it only me or do people see that Safaris and Scorpios aesthetically age very fast. Even a 2004model has dull paint and worn out plastic side fenders. They all age pretty fast compared to the Maruthis and the Japanese stuff that looks ever young even after 6 or 7 years.
Monster_BHP is offline  
Old 13th August 2007, 18:09   #139
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,453
Thanked: 955 Times
Default

You said 5 cylinders???

Isn't the popular config 4 in line or V6 (to balance the forces and optimize space)?

5 is odd (I mean literally as well as in the context of engine...)
anandpadhye is offline  
Old 13th August 2007, 18:24   #140
BHPian
 
Monster_BHP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: chennai
Posts: 188
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

I guess it would be 4cylinder, i was having the lorry engines in my head which i get to see now and then in my company. More over when its 3000cc i assumed it could be a 5cylinder.

However the Maruthi 800 was a 3 cylinder engine and it had no balancing problems.
Monster_BHP is offline  
Old 14th August 2007, 08:54   #141
BHPian
 
w 12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: bangalore
Posts: 402
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster_BHP View Post
sounds like it will be primarily driven by very high compression ratio which is aided by a big turbo.
I dont think so.

All Diesel Engines have high compression ratios visavis petrol engines. The Diesel Engines are also known as compression ignition engines, as the air fuel mixture is ignited by compression and not by spark.

Typical compreesion ratio in any diesel engines is 18+ and diesel engines are relatively more expensive to build for the same reason. And they will last you a long long time. ( heavy duty diesels in earthmovers, ships, Trains, battle tanks , Trucks are all turbos )

Last edited by w 12 : 14th August 2007 at 08:57.
w 12 is offline  
Old 14th August 2007, 10:01   #142
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,652
Thanked: 244 Times
Default

For a CRDI engine minimum pressure required to pump in fuel is at 1600 bars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by w 12 View Post
The Diesel Engines are also known as compression ignition engines, as the air fuel mixture is ignited by compression and not by spark.
dadu is offline  
Old 14th August 2007, 12:12   #143
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 1,594
Thanked: 439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
For a CRDI engine minimum pressure required to pump in fuel is at 1600 bars.
That's usually the pressure in second generation CRDI systems like those found in Safari Dicor and Swift. The first generation CRDI engines had lower pressure while third and fourth generation CRDIs have higher pressure. The latest CRDIs have pressure exceeding 2000 bars.
directinjection is offline  
Old 14th August 2007, 15:37   #144
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: bhopal
Posts: 2
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

[quote=Monster_BHP;531239]Does anyone think the new Engine will be a good one? I doubt that it will be a reliable work horse. Because getting 180bhp and close to 300NM torque out of a 5cylinder 3000CC engine, sounds like it will be primarily driven by very high compression ratio which is aided by a big turbo.

Any engine with too much turbo and artificially pumped in like that will have a low life cycle because the rings, piston and valves will get worn out pretty fast. This is the reason people go for more cylinders to increase the power out put safely and reliably. An naturally aspired engine has far more life than a artificially aspiring engine and this corresponds to the power of the turbo. More powerful the turbo less the engine life.

I am sorry, but i dont understand that what is meant by too much turbo and artificially pumped in. An engine is fitted with a turbocharger to increase the air charge ratio for the combustion,which in turn increases the maximum amount of fuel burnt per cycle.By putting a turbocharger we have a positive gain in terms of power to weight ratio,reduction in s.f.o.c,reduced initial engine cost and increased reliability and reduced maintenance costs which would have been otherwise because of less exacting combustion process and scavenging efficiency of engine.The turbocharger helps in increasing cycle efficiency by utilising waste heat recovery from exhaust gases.
Also the life of engine and the wear n tear associated with it depends upon maximum mechanical and thermal stresses developed in components for that particular engine,which in turn depend upon type of material,its thickness and cooling arrangements.If turbocharger a.k.a turbo has been incorporated since the design stage and birth of engine,there is no reason that we should worry about the reliability of engine,as designers would have taken every factor into consideration regarding maximum fuel which can be burnt and to keep piston speed within safe limits.On the other hand if modification and addition of turbo has been done after market,there are chances that maximum fuel burning limits and scavenge efficiency could be affected.Please correct me,if i am wrong.
untamed.sailor is offline  
Old 14th August 2007, 16:14   #145
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: bhopal
Posts: 2
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
For a CRDI engine minimum pressure required to pump in fuel is at 1600 bars.
I dont understand what is relation between compression ratio and the maximum pressure of fuel injection i.e. 1600 bar as quoted earlier.The compression ratio for a particular engine is designed on the basis of its starting conditions i.e. atmospheric temperature,the type of preheating for an engine and temperature of fuel. This is because when an engine is started initially,the compression should be suitable to raise the temperature of air to self ignition temperature of the particular fuel being burnt in engine. e.g. The boat engines being used in cold climates have compression ratio in excess of 22:1.
On the other hand fuel injection pressure will determine the atomization inside combustion chamber and thorough mixing of fuel with evenly spaced air .
untamed.sailor is offline  
Old 14th August 2007, 16:21   #146
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,652
Thanked: 244 Times
Default

There is no relation to the compression ratio but diesel ignites since its pumped at a high pressure, through fine nozzle's (injectors). The pressure is required for the fine spray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by untamed.sailor View Post
I dont understand what is relation between compression ratio and the maximum pressure of fuel injection i.e. 1600 bar as quoted earlier.The compression ratio for a particular engine is designed on the basis of its starting conditions i.e. atmospheric temperature,the type of preheating for an engine and temperature of fuel. This is because when an engine is started initially,the compression should be suitable to raise the temperature of air to self ignition temperature of the particular fuel being burnt in engine. e.g. The boat engines being used in cold climates have compression ratio in excess of 22:1.
On the other hand fuel injection pressure will determine the atomization inside combustion chamber and thorough mixing of fuel with evenly spaced air .
dadu is offline  
Old 16th August 2007, 08:21   #147
Senior - BHPian
 
maxbhp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: C C K
Posts: 1,372
Thanked: 65 Times
Default

I just happpened to see a Scorpio with a 'M2.2l' badge instead of the regular 2.2crde , any one seen similar ones ?
maxbhp is offline  
Old 16th August 2007, 09:21   #148
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 19
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxbhp View Post
I just happpened to see a Scorpio with a 'M2.2l' badge instead of the regular 2.2crde , any one seen similar ones ?
Regular is 2.6CRde and not 2.2 CRDe my friend.
wonderboy is offline  
Old 16th August 2007, 10:06   #149
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: goa
Posts: 1,066
Thanked: 52 Times
Default

maxbhp..where did you see this vehicle..are you sure it was M2.2l..and not M2di...the bolero engined scorpio... and ways there is no 2.2crde,it's 2.6crde.
dinar is offline  
Old 16th August 2007, 18:12   #150
Senior - BHPian
 
maxbhp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: C C K
Posts: 1,372
Thanked: 65 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderboy View Post
Regular is 2.6CRde and not 2.2 CRDe my friend.
My mistake, anyway I will keep my eyes open for them and get the snaps as soon as possible
maxbhp is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahindra Scorpio AT coming. EDIT, now launched RavenAvi The Indian Car Scene 79 29th July 2016 17:37
2014 Mahindra Scorpio Facelift (W105). EDIT: Now launched at Rs. 7.98 lakhs himanshugoswami The Indian Car Scene 1108 30th October 2014 13:48
Captiva AWD launching on Jan 26th EDIT: Now launched machhan81 The Indian Car Scene 62 11th October 2010 15:32
VW Jetta is Launching in India EDIT: Now Launched nicejits The Indian Car Scene 249 8th October 2008 15:41
Scorpio SLX CRDE or Wait for Scorpio Eagle or Used Elantra or Wait for Skoda Fabia ? dharmu99 Hatchbacks 9 25th October 2007 12:22


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 14:39.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks