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View Poll Results: Is India Dumping Place For Under Rated Cars? - R We Getting Riped Off With Crappy Cars
YES 80 60.61%
NO 52 39.39%
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Old 8th May 2004, 21:31   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]ifu dunt know i can get u an evolution 4 for 10lacs.....excluding the import duty.....and a evo 8 for 14lacs
I can get you a Jaguar XJ for circa 25 lakhs, and a 3-series for 14 or so, 'excluding the import duty'. That's simply not the point.
As far as the models being launched in India, can't complain really. The Indian market has finally come of age, and I'm sure we are going to see the best cars launched here too. As a matter of fact, we already are. However, it is unfair to compare the Indian market to the American and Japanese markets. For now at least..
Quote:
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Quote[/b] ]The indigenisation levels are very very low.
Exactly. More local content will drive prices down.
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Old 9th May 2004, 23:19   #32
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S350L-E240, you are confusing outdated cars with needed cars, OUTDATED clearly means outdated, whether its needed or not is totally another issue.

An outdated car is here, just because its selling here. But that doesn't make it seem better to me. Its still outdated no matter if the president of India travels in it.

And I think the WagonR that touched the million mark in Japan (i.e. even before WagonR was launched in India) was a newer version. Although if Opel sells this version in some country that again doesn't make it new.

And if indians are given the option to choose between new and old at a comparable, they'll go for the newer i guess.

So what if just 20-30% of cars are outdated. they are the ones selling! because they come cheap.

So the only fact I am trying to state is, we can not deny the fact that there is dumping, but the Indian "economy" is not ready for the latest yet.

The class of people who are ready for the latest are being given the latest. So dumping is not a very big and real issue.

Its all the price game.
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Old 9th May 2004, 23:32   #33
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Quote:
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Quote[/b] ]Indian "economy" is not ready for the latest yet.
Hey SLK, I feel the Indian market is ready for new cars. Look at the sales of the new City. Honda has managed to price it lower than the older City. If GM wanted it cud have launched the new Corsa here. But they are concentraing more on the Chevy brand.
Take a look at Mercedes. It has launched the new cars within months of them being launched internationally. Same with Hyundai. But the same cant be said about the others.

Indian economy is ready for new cars, but the auto companies are not.
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Old 10th May 2004, 00:20   #34
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well, I am just trying to talk about the B segment, (thats where I belong to), here if new models are launched the prices shoot up and they get out of reach.

But Ofcourse some manufacturers are doing a good job, but the most who are not are offering to the B segment. Suzuki I heard changes good amount of royalty from Maruti, for most of its models.

Just for eg. I have a WagonR, if Maruti was offering WagonR+ instead of it, I could not have bought it because it would cost a lot more. (its much bigger, better, powerful.........)

Though if manufacturers really want to bring out the latest they can at any price, Baleno is a example..
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Old 10th May 2004, 03:02   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]but the most who are not are offering to the B segment. Suzuki I heard changes good amount of royalty from Maruti, for most of its models.
Suzuki is now the majority owner of Maruti Udyog Limited.

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Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]Though if manufacturers really want to bring out the latest they can at any price, Baleno is a example..
The Balenos price has been brought down due to excessive levels of indigenisation. It took Maruti all of 4 years to get the parts locally sourced and subsequently the prices down to a 6 lac level.

What counts most is the size of the market...and India is showing the greatest growth figures in the B segment and the UV segment. Sure, the upper C segment and the D Segment may have grown like 300% in the recent past, but the actual numbers are still limited. The Honda Accord sells about 6000 cars in India, compared to the US where it sells 4 lacs annually. Its all about the economies of scale and market relevance, my friend.

Dumping is termed as the sale of goods in a market lower than the price in the domestic market OR below cost. But this topic is talking about dumping older technologies. India has hardly seen the dumping of older technologies in the past two decades. When the 800 was launched, it was concurrently sold in developed markets (E.g. the Alto in Japan). Ditto for the Zen. Ditto for the Lancer. Ditto for the Santro. And for the Matiz. The list really goes on and on.

The point is that when these products were introduced, they wernt necessarily outdated. The difference is that the product life cycles in India are way longer than they are in other markets...again primarily due to market dynamics. For instance, it would take a manufacturer much longer to break even with an Accord that sells 6000 units per year in a particular market vs one that consumes 4,00,000 units in the same period.

Plus have you heard about the case with Enron and what happened with its dhabol plant? Thats the kind of political nuisance that is stopping manufacturers from commiting full fledgedly (Read financial investments) to India. Look at Coke, they were literally kicked out of India in the 70's.

Also the case for the 800 is that NO ONE SINGLE MANUFACTURER can make and sell the 800 at the price that MUL is selling it for. Its quite simply the cheapest car in the world. And for the rural and first-time car buyers - the only real option in the market.

You cant really compare India which has an average earning of Rs.37000 per person vs the US which has an average of $33000 (apprx. 15 lacs)

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Old 10th May 2004, 10:54   #36
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Quote:
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Quote[/b] (S350L-E240 @ May 07 2004,18:24)].
Did you know india happens to be the only place outside germany where S-KLASSE is made?
Also in south africa
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Old 10th May 2004, 10:57   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (ajmat @ May 09 2004,21:24)]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (S350L-E240 @ May 07 2004,18:24)].
Did you know india happens to be the only place outside germany where S-KLASSE is made?
Also in south africa
S Class is not made in india??
It comes in full body without bonet and few other things (come seperately, CBU)which are just put together..we dont have a manufacturing plant here...This is done to reduce costs since CBU duties are lower by 10-15% as far as I know..

L8r
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Old 10th May 2004, 13:29   #38
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C4S,
lol man do u never read the entire sentence?? this s what i said :

" Did you know india happens to be the only place outside germany where S-KLASSE is made? not made i know but still ""

If u read the last few words ... i meant SKD but that too doesnt happen anywhere outside germany and ajmat not even in SA !!
Not for the S!
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Old 10th May 2004, 15:01   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]meant SKD but that too doesnt happen anywhere outside germany and ajmat not even in SA !!
Hey S350, I think the S is made or assembled in SA. My Dad, who is currently on a captain on a car carrier, just picked up a fresh lot of S, E and M class Benzs' from SA and is on his way to Singapore and Japan for delivery.

But I think its wrong to take Mercedes as an example for car manufacturers. The Super luxury section of the market, which is what MB cater too, operate on a totally different mindset to the regular auto market. For MB, they HAVE to get the latest down, and if they increase the price, they will not lose any of their customers because the simple fact is that the higher the price of their cars is, the higher the snob value. If a person is paying 36+ lakhs for an E class now, I'm sure he wouldn't think twice about forking out a couple of more lakhs when MB brings in a newer model. This has been proven already with the E class.

However, auto manufacturers at the lower end of the foodchain don't have it so easy. They cannot raise their prices by more than a few thousand when a new model arrives.
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Old 10th May 2004, 15:12   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (S350L-E240 @ May 10 2004,11:59)]If u read the last few words ... i meant SKD but that too doesnt happen anywhere outside germany and ajmat not even in SA !!
Not for the S!
Did a quick bit of research -

Well, definitely in Thailand

http://www.thonburi.com/assembly.htm

Indonesia
http://www.autoindex.org/maker.plt?no=126

W126's were assembled in South Africa. Plant focusses on a high volume of W203's for economies of scale - virtually all right hand drive C classes come from SA
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Old 10th May 2004, 15:37   #41
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ajmat i need to confirm this cuz i remember reading or heard from someone at MB that india's the only place but maybe im wrong but ill still clarify.
rtech i agree to what u say all im tryin to say is the scene is not as bad as it's made to sound. I mean yes there are few outdated cars but then i think they are here cuz they offer cost cutting and also fuel economy a friend of mine did not buy the palio cuz he said its average is bad...!! I mean i dun think there's any better small car then Palio, their dealers is another issue but his point was average which i believe is an important factor for most people here...

But then cars like the new CITY offer average but new age looks so we are getting both but i guess being a developing economy it will still take some time before no car here is dated but i have a strong feeling M800 and Amby will stay a while...
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Old 10th May 2004, 16:04   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ] If a person is paying 36+ lakhs for an E class now, I'm sure he wouldn't think twice about forking out a couple of more lakhs when MB brings in a newer model. This has been proven already with the E class.

However, auto manufacturers at the lower end of the foodchain don't have it so easy. They cannot raise their prices by more than a few thousand when a new model arrives.
So true. While most of the cars that are still available from 1997 sell at the same price or lower (e.g. Marutis, Lancers, Hondas, Tatas) the price of the Mercedes E Class has shot from 22 lacs in 1997 to 35 lacs today.

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Old 10th May 2004, 16:32   #43
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[quote]Mercedes E Class has shot from 22 lacs in 1997 to 35 lacs today.[quote]

absolutely, now that you put the two prices together, it's an eye opener. An increase of 13 lakhs in 7 years is very commendable. of course the new E-Klasse has incorporated some brilliant technology including CDI engines, but does it really justify such a steep price hike over a period of time?
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Old 10th May 2004, 21:34   #44
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I think this price increase is due to a drastic technology and style change which brings about such an increase, geenrally when newer models comes out a lot of new and expesnive technologies go into BMWs, Mercs and the other top end brands,where as I really dont c any major technological advancements in cars being sold by the regular brands...this is the reason for the price increase and we get affected more because a mere 10% increase for them means a 20+% increase for us..and the general trend has been about 10% increase for every newer model or a 2-5% increase for redesigned models.. so there you go, since 97 I think we have gone through 2 major changes and 1 minor which means from 22->28->30->36 keeping up with the percentage equation..

Cheers..
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Old 10th May 2004, 21:42   #45
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E class (W210) was 22 in 97? I just went thru some old files it comes to abt 27! or are u guys talkin abt the 124?
then again there are other factors considering Rupee was devaluated some time back and Euro prices keep rising. Whereas earlier we considered prices based on dutch marks!! and again like what C4S said every new model gets a little expensive due to extra R&D, Though i dun like SBC personally im sure a lotta R&D went into making it happen,

But whats sad is in the R&D for W211 merc went backwards a little in the rear seat
this is goin off topic sorry
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