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Old 3rd August 2007, 04:03   #61
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I don't think this is necessarily reflected in the wider market. People will continue to buy the NHC for space, reliability and brand value.
That last bit is very highly prioritized in the car buying decisions made by the common people.

Recently i had a relative doing all sorts of analysis (wasted a lot of my time) over NHC and SX4. He comes to agree that the sx4 definitely is a logical choice. The next thing I come to know is that he bought a NHC.

On Asking, he said, "Given that both the cars offer similar levels of value in terms of reliability and comfort and that one offers some more in terms of attributes that does not matter to him, it is quite logical to go for the Brand." (No prizes for guessing what has more brand value?)

Its just that when these guys would "show-up" at a function or so, a Honda will spell out more success than a Maruti. Given that there are thousands of those average-joes who would judge success purely by what brand (segment immaterial) they drove up in!
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Old 3rd August 2007, 09:52   #62
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On Asking, he said, "Given that both the cars offer similar levels of value in terms of reliability and comfort and that one offers some more in terms of attributes that does not matter to him, it is quite logical to go for the Brand." (No prizes for guessing what has more brand value?)

Its just that when these guys would "show-up" at a function or so, a Honda will spell out more success than a Maruti. Given that there are thousands of those average-joes who would judge success purely by what brand (segment immaterial) they drove up in!
I see a similarity with what's happening in the consumer electronics world. There's a certain "S" brand, another Japanese company that just doesn't seem to change because Indians have this status thing for owning products made by it. Not sure if Honda will ever change it's attitude either.

Even if they do make the required upgradations in their cars, they'll take their own sweet time and are too proud to "react" openly to competition. For the same reason, I don't think Toyota will price their new Corolla on par with say a Cedia. They are sure to take advantage of our mindset.
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Old 3rd August 2007, 11:27   #63
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only thing that will shake honda is that if the present corolla is sold at a price of city and the new corolla is made to compete with the civic with a different name,like rahul_intlad in some other thread
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Old 3rd August 2007, 11:36   #64
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
2007 Honda Civic Si Sedan - Specifications - the Official Honda Web Site

See this.... all for 21,290 $ less than a million indian rupees!
I wish this comes to India. Always the cut down version is brought here.. This would definitely be a scorcher if it comes to India..
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Old 3rd August 2007, 11:50   #65
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I don't think Honda is under pressure at all. The Corolla could do nothing to the Civic, so what's the Optra diesel going to do? As for the SX4, it is incredible VFM, but then people esp. in that segment want some snob value, which MUL sadly just does not deliver. Ditto, the Grand Vitars. We've already seen what it's done earlier (read NOTHING). I have seen only ONE on Pune roads and that's owned by Kalmadi, the owner of Sai Service, MUL dealers. I really don't think Honda has anything to worry about, certainly not by the competition mentioned here. If at all there are worries, they should be in the GM and Skoda stables, coz their diesels might get hit by the Magnum.
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Old 3rd August 2007, 12:47   #66
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If at all there are worries, they should be in the GM and Skoda stables, coz their diesels might get hit by the Magnum.
And i thought the Magnum came from the GM camp, called the Optra Magnum.
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Old 3rd August 2007, 14:27   #67
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I don't think Honda is under pressure at all. The Corolla could do nothing to the Civic, so what's the Optra diesel going to do? As for the SX4, it is incredible VFM, but then people esp. in that segment want some snob value, which MUL sadly just does not deliver. Ditto, the Grand Vitars. We've already seen what it's done earlier (read NOTHING). I have seen only ONE on Pune roads and that's owned by Kalmadi, the owner of Sai Service, MUL dealers. I really don't think Honda has anything to worry about, certainly not by the competition mentioned here. If at all there are worries, they should be in the GM and Skoda stables, coz their diesels might get hit by the Magnum.
I really saw the funny side of your post . The Civic might be safe for now but the NHC is really under fire. Just see Car Sales thread before posting junk. I find it amusing that people compare Honda City and snob value. After all its a car for the 3rd world countries unlike the Civic/CR-V.
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Old 3rd August 2007, 17:32   #68
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And i thought the Magnum came from the GM camp, called the Optra Magnum.
Oops...my bad. I meant the Verna should be under fire from the Magnum; I know different categories, but diesels still the same.
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Old 3rd August 2007, 17:36   #69
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I find it amusing that people compare Honda City and snob value. After all its a car for the 3rd world countries unlike the Civic/CR-V.
You won't be amused at the number of people who think of the City as a luxury car and spend that much extra just for the Honda name. Personally I do not like the NHC at all, but there are far too many people who do, and esp. amongst such people Maruti will always be "slumming it".
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Old 3rd August 2007, 19:48   #70
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You won't be amused at the number of people who think of the City as a luxury car
Yes the Honda name adds Luxury to it. Its much the same as what is perceived with some entry level Mercs (till about recently, but then the "class" that buys Merc has matured to look beyond the brand, or so I guess!).
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Old 4th August 2007, 02:26   #71
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Yes the Honda name adds Luxury to it. Its much the same as what is perceived with some entry level Mercs (till about recently, but then the "class" that buys Merc has matured to look beyond the brand, or so I guess!).
Talking about people who spend a bomb just for a 3-star deserves another thread altogether! But yes, the NHC is certainly looked upon as a premium car.
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Old 4th August 2007, 03:37   #72
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[quote=balaji_n29;520800 Just see Car Sales thread before posting junk.[/quote]
Car sales really do not say it all, and as to posting junk, I really haven't heard pearls of wisdom spill from your lips! this is an opinion, just as you're entitled to yours.
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Old 7th August 2007, 10:15   #73
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Originally Posted by raul View Post
For instance I think Honda is overpriced and taking advantage of the market condition in India and I will not support that with my money. I don't think this is necessarily reflected in the wider market. People will continue to buy the NHC for space, reliability and brand value.

More competition is obviously going to make Honda think again but with their current pricing I think they are definitely going to be out outmaneuvered by companies who will deliver more value at lower prices, and some of these companies will even have the brand value. City should not be more than 7-7.5 for the highest models, Civic more in the 10 range than 12-14 which is overpriced, now how will they compete when we get similar cars in that range and better cars in their current range of prices?
NHC overprice definitely yes. Look at that segment and the cars that are being offered and the features and it is relatively easy to establish that NHC is overpriced. (I read that the NHC will have the airbags, abs and vtec motor incorporated in GXi and will increase the price by 25k - Overdrive June' 07 issue. In that case it will also become great value and would no longer remain as overpriced)

Civic? Overpriced? If Skoda is not, Corolla is not then how is the Civic overpriced? Skoda is an old car selling for greater than 13 lakhs. Corolla starts from 10 (without power steering etc.) and goes all the way to 13.5 lakhs. With equivalent features Civic is in the same range. I guess they priced it pretty decently although if you compare to the prices in US and the other developed markets it would be high but then a direct comparison of such prices is not warranted is it?
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Old 7th August 2007, 11:32   #74
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I am pleasantly surprised there are so many opinions similar to mine as regards Honda viz;
  1. They are overpriced.
  2. They command premium for the brand, however fail to provide the requisite features other manufacturers can at a lesser price.
  3. While very refined, practical and good performers, they are certainly over-hyped.
  4. Honda owes a considerable part of its brand value on account of products sold abroad, which however are watered down for the Indian audience.
  5. Honda are stupidly sitting on their high horses in ivory towers, and are well on their way to elevating arrogance to an art form.

Additionally, with respect to another earlier comment about class of people buying Honda as opposed to the pan-chewing masses that buy other brands, that couldn't be more wrong. The hordes of pan-chewing, 10'th pass, businessfolks that go for Honda constitute a sizeable chunk of their customer base. Add to that the fact that these idiots wouldn't know the difference between their rear ends and a hole in the ground, much less technical analysis of product offerings. So that argument is right out of the window as well.

Last edited by hell_rider : 7th August 2007 at 11:40. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 7th August 2007, 11:50   #75
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Originally Posted by Chat View Post
I decided in favour of Cedia over Civic as it was giving me everthing but for that jazz dashboard for 3.5 lacs lesser.
Congrats on buying the Cedia. I still think that with a 2.0 litre engine and just 115Bhp, the Cedia is neither here nor there. I'd always go for the Civic with a 1.8 and 132Bhp. You see, it's a little, if not a lot, more than a jazzy dashboard.
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