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Old 8th August 2007, 16:27   #166
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Since the topic has headed in another direction me too will go a bit off-topic sorry,

With the rising interest rates nowadays people cannot even afford a motorcycle in this scenario will they be able to double their budget and go in for the one lakh car,[motorcycle sales are falling drastically nowadays].

People in this segment are used to very little maintainance of their motorcycles,very rarely do they even bother to service it so will they change that in case of a car,are they ready to accept the increase in maintainance costs/fuel costs etc.

Why is nobody buying the maruti 800 nowadays[ok people still buy it but sales have fallen drastically here too].

We do not talk about the advantages of bikes in cities etc,try parking a bike and then a car first and foremost its so much more cheaper,then you can just about always put your bike somewhere or the other.Driving in traffic a bike gets you faster from point a to b.Parking space is limited everywhere colleges,offices etc.
Why I am making a bike Vs car comparison is because in this segment it may just come down to that with people being able to afford only one of the two and its not necessarily going to be a car always.

What I want to say is that introduction of the one-lakh car does not mean bye bye two wheelers,so 2 wheeler manufacturers should be cautious alright but need not worry too much.
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Old 8th August 2007, 16:33   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Just in case you are not aware Tata is also working on a future gen of engines that will use AIR as the fuel. Something like the ramjet engines.
A ramjet does not use air as a fuel. It uses aviation kerosene (jet fuel) or solid fuel: hydroxyl terminated polybutadiene aluminum, magnesium, and boron carbide.

While the ramjet excels in having no major moving parts, its compression ratio is so low, it's worthless until the speed exceeds 1000 km/h.

Tata is investing in Guy Negre's company MDI.
They make an car that runs on compressed air (air compressed to 300 bars), like a dentist's drill. But that doesn't use air as fuel either!

Energy is stored by compressing air using an electric compressor or diesel fueled compressor. That energy in the compressed air, operates Guy Negre's celebrated air-car.

Last edited by Ram : 8th August 2007 at 16:34. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 8th August 2007, 16:44   #168
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I can see it is taking a turn that I do not wish to follow. I would be glad if the spirit behind the words is taken note of by readers. I never said it is only cheap cars that pollute; it is common knowledge that carbon-based technology is polluting. It it is the sheer number that is frightening. As of my future car polluting the planet, well, unfortunately it will. I, as you are, am a cog in the wheel and as individuals we have limited capacity to change things. But the least the learnt can do is to create awareness and bring in a sense of perspective to ensure that solution to problems does not come fraught with more problems. We are already living in difficult times; we simply don't have the luxury of making mistakes others made and then learning from it.
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Old 8th August 2007, 17:02   #169
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Quote:
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A ramjet does not use air as a fuel.

...

Energy is stored by compressing air using an electric compressor or diesel fueled compressor. That energy in the compressed air, operates Guy Negre's celebrated air-car.
True, thats why I said "something like". Both use compressed air to generate a thrust. Yes, so to run a compresser you need some fuel... all that is fine and understood Ram. But then if the thrust produced by the air works as a major source/aid for the ultimate propulsion then it is also a kind of fuel, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vayalam
I can see it is taking a turn that I do not wish to follow. I would be glad if the spirit behind the words is taken note of by readers
It is not at all taking any turns buddy. Are you afraid of this leading upto a brawl or something? Trust me it won't. But anyhow, I guess the point has been conveyed.

Your idea that Tata 1 lakh car will be a mass produced car and hence needs to be stopped but others should be allowed to keep their exclusive cars (don't say you did not say that. I know so, but then if only 1lac car is termed mass produced then the others have to be the opposite, right?) till infrastructure improves is simply untenable.

And at the end of the day I have only one thing to say. Do not mouth out platitudes about environment, human cause, nature etc as long as you yourself can not follow that as well. In short one should walk the talk. Anything less is only the hallmark of politicians.

EDIT: I would like to add here that I am not at all against your idea. In fact it is very noble and maybe even timely. I am all for it. But I am against any sort of car apartheid. Whatever be the suggestion or implementation should be the same for everyone. For me, for you and for the entire world. If it brings sufferings so be it. But it should be for everyone.

Last edited by Zappo : 8th August 2007 at 17:25.
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Old 8th August 2007, 17:51   #170
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
But I am against any sort of car apartheid. Whatever be the suggestion or implementation should be the same for everyone. For me, for you and for the entire world. If it brings sufferings so be it. But it should be for everyone.
Completely agree with you Zappo.
Moreover when we tend to discuss the cons of this car, we always look at the cities. But I think it would be a big success in the rural and small towns, where there is very little or no public transport. In these places traffic, pollution, etc are not the problem but transportation is. If this car can give them a safe transportation at an affordable price then I am all for it.

I come from a small village, and believe me it really hurts to go to the nearby town on my bike under the scorching sun.
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Old 8th August 2007, 20:30   #171
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ONE point has to be clear is this thread is that, this car has enough positive points to neglect the negetive..by mentioning the deficient infrastructue you cannot make a strong point here, just like you Vayalam there will be many other people who woud prefer public transport (who can behave ignorant towards this car)but there are people like me who consider privacy as gods greatest gift ,we dont like travelling with people around,so we would be very greatful to Ratan Tata for this...(i know there are very few people like me,but every body should get an option to live the way he wants)

zappo for the last three four post you 've been staeling words from my mind ....leaving me with nothing to write..

Last edited by AMATMO : 8th August 2007 at 20:36.
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Old 9th August 2007, 10:07   #172
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[FONT=Verdana]Going by Zappo says, people who are concerned about green house gases and ozone-depleting chemicals should not use cars and own refrigerators. Thanks for the advice, buddy. I liked the rejoinder. Kinda reinforces my faith in people. They do see reason….after all.
I wonder how this discussion turned sort of rich vs. poor or urban vs. rural! No doubt that the poor (relatively) and rural will benefit and from a cheap and affordable car; employment opportunities will multiply (think about the additional repair work these cars will generate). But don't fail to see the not-so-rosy-side of things. I wish ten or fifteen years from now, future will prove me wrong and our cities will still be livable (I may add that I live and work in a small town).
Incidentally, I found out that there is a lot of discussion on this subject on the net. Here is an article at the World Resources Institute which some of you may find interesting:
Just What Overcrowded, Polluted India Didn't Need - The $3000 Car | NextBillion.net - Development Through Enterprise

[/FONT]
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Old 9th August 2007, 10:31   #173
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guys we have renault also showing interest in joining in to give tata's competition for the one lac car. renault is tying up with bajaj for it. so now there is variety in this segment as well.
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Old 9th August 2007, 10:56   #174
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One more thing we should understand is that these cars no matter how cheap they will never sell as many as the two wheelers.....hence if anybody is seriously seriously worrid about the green house effect he should first think of getting rid of all the two wheelers,and head towards USA and tell them them to allow sale of only restricted no. of cars....
in india only 5% people can afford cars, this new car might increase that number to 7% or 8% but that is still nothing and indian nature can definately sustain that...as far as the fuel getting expensive ...well let the buyer decide his spendings....so you will see that the contribution of this car in green house effect is neglegible....lets face it the main cause of global worming is due to the western countries who themselves preach this....because of the media even indians are aware of it..but the main cause and the solution lies in the west

we dont have to do anything about it...atleast as of now

Last edited by AMATMO : 9th August 2007 at 10:57.
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Old 9th August 2007, 11:13   #175
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Already we have people who move the entire family on bikes. Daily I see couple with a small child riding on the bike amid the pollution and bigger vehicles.
The 1 lakh car would be a safe ride by many times for these people and we have lots of them. So we really need it as a country and hope the maintenance will not be a bothersome issue.
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Old 9th August 2007, 12:18   #176
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I share your indignation of the west, Amatmo. It is true that the west, knowingly and unknowingly, have made terrible mistakes, the price for which being paid by all, including the poor third world countries. They, especially the US, continue to be belligerent and are steadfast that they want to maintain their “way of life”, notwithstanding the global implications of that way of life. Europe, in contrast, appears to be more sympathetic to issues (remember the Kyoto protocol) and are willing to accommodate. The conundrum that taxes educated minds is whether accelerating economies like China, India and Brazil should follow the same path the west followed, reach a level of “development” and then start to think about environmental implications of their growth, or think of alternative ways. The latter is not the simplest of approaches, but may be more sustainable in the long run.
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Old 9th August 2007, 13:48   #177
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I think its time to change the topic of this thread, or lets stick to the point here.

As some 1 said earlier you cant stop development, and with it comes the pros and cons of it, so lets just leave that to it.
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Old 9th August 2007, 14:26   #178
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I think this discussion is going nowhere. For anything that is good there will be some bad effects associated with it. But it is the amount of goodness that needs to be taken into consideration while deciding if the 'thing' is good or bad. In this case, the Tata Car definitely has more good things than the bad things. Lets accept this!
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Old 9th August 2007, 15:16   #179
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I now think its a force for good. Cheap commuting for the rural masses, and will force urban planners to ban new car purchases on singapore lines.

If nothing else, making city driving horribly expensive like london so that safe ubuquitous public travel becomes a reality. Rush hour Mumbai suburban trains are currently not even fit for cattle. This car will be a wakeup call.

And like a fever, things will get worse before they get better. Amen
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Old 9th August 2007, 19:20   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vayalam View Post
I share your indignation of the west, Amatmo. It is true that the west, knowingly and unknowingly, have made terrible mistakes, the price for which being paid by all, including the poor third world countries. They, especially the US, continue to be belligerent and are steadfast that they want to maintain their “way of life”, notwithstanding the global implications of that way of life. Europe, in contrast, appears to be more sympathetic to issues (remember the Kyoto protocol) and are willing to accommodate. The conundrum that taxes educated minds is whether accelerating economies like China, India and Brazil should follow the same path the west followed, reach a level of “development” and then start to think about environmental implications of their growth, or think of alternative ways. The latter is not the simplest of approaches, but may be more sustainable in the long run.
Vayalam...this is not what i meant,you misunderstood me,..let me explain
look what i was saying ,is that these cars can never be sold in numbers that should make you to worry about nature...and will never make us feel the need of worrying for the environment ,it will not effect it in any ways dont worry... like i said ,currently there are 5% indians owning four wheelers if the percentage increases to 7% it will not harm the nature in anyway


basically it is very unlikly for indian traffic to increase in high proportion hence that problem will never appear in our country

Last edited by AMATMO : 9th August 2007 at 19:22.
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