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Old 28th January 2008, 18:18   #271
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Just as Suryam pointed out, IMHO the Nano is there to help these families with regards to:
Number 1 - Safety
Number 2 - An all weather transport
Number 3 - More space

and then with pride and enjoyment of having a car.

And all this at a marginal cost more than owning a 2 wheeler.
Which includes a higher purchase price and a slightly higher running cost but in the end, those who can afford to strecth their pockets will be very happy and those who feel its not worth the extra moolah will be happy with their 2 wheelers

Win-Win situation. Only i do feel that mother nature will suffer and to some extent, road rage and traffic will increase.

Just pointing out the Positive & the Negative although i feel it is a progress, it has strings attached with regards to mother nature but if an environmentally friendly version can be worked out, it will truely be PROGRESS.
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Old 28th January 2008, 18:21   #272
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My best guess will be this car can give around 15 kmpl. with full load, while a two wheeler gives minimum of 50 kmpl. (nowadays with advanced two wheeler engine technology, some bikes give even 60 kmpl).
Imagine the monthly cost impact on an average two-wheeler user.
He will have to shell out at least three times MORE than what he would spend in case of 2 wheeler, which is sure going to bite into his budget. Combined with the maintenance expenses of a car versus a two wheeler...!!!
In my opinion, this CAR can satify the 'DREAMS' of people who can't afford any other car, but in the long run, they are going to regret having bought the car, just for 'owning a car'...
What makes you think that the the Nano engine is not ADVANCED?

They have tested the engine at 26kmpl and is expected to give 22 kmpl in city. 20 kmpl is a very realistic figure. (Maruti 800 gives around 17 kmpl).

But any way let us wait and watch rather then pass judgements.
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Old 28th January 2008, 18:23   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RajaTaurus;703207
...How much a 645 CC engine, pulling its own weight + at least 300 kg payload, can give in terms of mileage and how it compares with a two wheeler on road?

...Imagine the monthly cost impact on an average two-wheeler user.
He will have to shell out [U
at least three times[/u] MORE than what he would spend in case of 2 wheeler, which is sure going to bite into his budget. Combined with the maintenance expenses of a car versus a two wheeler...!!!
Shall we dream of India joining the other developed nations of the world on the path of progress?
As with the bullock cart, the cheap two-wheeler polluting vehicle should also be obsoleted on our streets.

Don't we realize how antiquated and unsafe it is
to use a two wheeler motor-scooter as transportation
for two or more passengers?

IMHO, just because we ignored safety and fell off our bikes in the past,
is no justification for continuing to do it into 2010.
How many more of us must get maimed or killed before we will wake up?

With economic progress, people's expectations are bound to rise.
What is the average kilometres per litre expectation of the world citizen.
How far will we carry this expectation of travelling for free or near-free?

If one's conscience and principles are so troubled about fuel consumed per passenger-kilometre, one should take a train, which delivers massive passenger-kilometres per unit energy expenditure.
A double-decker train (like the red one in the far background) is even more efficient.


Munich main railway station, 26-Jan-2008.

Another thought: How many bhp does your engine expend, whilst ambling along a crowded downtown street?

Ram
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Old 28th January 2008, 18:32   #274
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Tata Nano might sell like hot cakes and there lies the problem. All those Nano's on the roads would make driving a nightmare.

The infrastructure is already over loaded, add to it the Nano and you are close to unleashing absolute mayhem.
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Old 29th January 2008, 09:18   #275
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Mr. Ram,
Mumbai can NEVER, I Repeat NEVER become Munich... ever.. Look at the population in Mumbai and Munich... If you dream CST will be ONE DAY like Munich Railstation, It will REMAIN a Dream...
I can't agree with you more on emphasis on improving the efficiency of "Mass Transport" versus individual transport.
but this is competitive world and everyone wants to make money and be in the News and TATAs are not exception...
What we should be doing is improving the rail system in city as well as inter-cities.

And look at Indian Roads. Mahindras and Piaggios have flooded the city roads with the 3 wheelers in Millions, who have no traffic rules, no rear view mirrors, (no rear views even..) and are merrily mowing along the city's major roads.... Added to these chaoes will be the Nanos...
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Old 29th January 2008, 09:53   #276
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Good point RajaTauras. I recently saw some interview in some media and the lady was saying Ratan Tata would have been a winner, had he built a low cost Bus than a low cost Car.

With all respect to Mr Tata, this was certainly a better option!
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Old 29th January 2008, 11:00   #277
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Originally Posted by RajaTaurus View Post
Mr. Ram,
Mumbai can NEVER, I Repeat NEVER become Munich... ever.. Look at the population in Mumbai and Munich... If you dream CST will be ONE DAY like Munich Railstation, It will REMAIN a Dream...

And look at Indian Roads

I beg to differ. Things are changing for sure and India will surely catch up with the developed world even in terms of infastructure. Its just a matter of time.

And Mumbai doesnt have to become Munich. Mumbai must remain Mumbai but with its infastructure problems sorted out.

Btw CST is one of the most beautiful buildings in the world from inside and out. I dont think it has too many problems wrt to handling local crowds. Its the other stations further down the line that really need urgent attention.


Last edited by khanak : 29th January 2008 at 11:05.
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Old 29th January 2008, 16:26   #278
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Good point RajaTauras. I recently saw some interview in some media and the lady was saying Ratan Tata would have been a winner, had he built a low cost Bus than a low cost Car.

With all respect to Mr Tata, this was certainly a better option!
With all due respect Penpavan I think both you and the said lady need to take a reality check, a low cost bus? at whom would this low cost bus be targeted? The state transportation departments? Their coffers can any ways afford the buses available today and more importantly just take two minutes and think about how many of the targeted would use such buses to move around rather than their own private vehicle. Personally I feel that we are blowing this whole thing out of proportion, If people in a city like Bombay were just waiting for such a low cost option to become available, I wonder why they haven't already purchased a 2nd hand Maruti 800! Personally I feel that over the last few years the no. of Maruti 800 cars has dwindled in Bombay with people opting for something with more street cred. Thats why this entire perception that Bombay will become one big parking lot thanks to the Tata Nano is a little far-fetched!
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Old 29th January 2008, 19:56   #279
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With all due respect Penpavan I think both you and the said lady need to take a reality check, a low cost bus? at whom would this low cost bus be targeted? The state transportation departments? Their coffers can any ways afford the buses available today and more importantly just take two minutes and think about how many of the targeted would use such buses to move around rather than their own private vehicle. Personally I feel that we are blowing this whole thing out of proportion, If people in a city like Bombay were just waiting for such a low cost option to become available, I wonder why they haven't already purchased a 2nd hand Maruti 800! Personally I feel that over the last few years the no. of Maruti 800 cars has dwindled in Bombay with people opting for something with more street cred. Thats why this entire perception that Bombay will become one big parking lot thanks to the Tata Nano is a little far-fetched!
The option of not buying a 2nd hand Maruti has to do with street cred.
For the segment being aimed at by Tata Nano, street cred lies in the fact of being able to buy your own NEW car. It is more physcological than financial.
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Old 29th January 2008, 23:04   #280
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Originally Posted by da_lowrider View Post
Personally I feel that over the last few years the no. of Maruti 800 cars has dwindled in Bombay with people opting for something with more street cred. Thats why this entire perception that Bombay will become one big parking lot thanks to the Tata Nano is a little far-fetched!
This perception is based on the fact that, people that could not afford (the two-wheeler crowd and the no-wheeler crowd), as well as those who could, but hesitated to buy an additional car would now buy a Tata Nano.

College students don't have to beg for daddy's additional car anymore.
The Bajaj Autorickshaw seems to be headed for the happy hunting grounds...

It is all these novice four-wheelers, who would flood the building compounds, the streets, the pavements, the shopping malls, the movie theatres, the vegetable markets, the ...

People who once hesitated to travel far from home because of lack of convenient private transportation, will now do so.
We can expect more malls, more marketplaces, more businesses to cater to India's nouveau mobile hoi polloi.

Overall a cheerful bursting bright future for the economy...

There is, after all historical precedent...
The CitroŽn 2CV did this for France: Boulanger's early 1930s radical design of the CitroŽn 2CV -- a low-priced, rugged "umbrella on four wheels" for two villagers to drive 100 kg of produce to market at 60 km/h across kutchha roads.
And the 1937 Fiat Topolino did it for Italy...

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Old 30th January 2008, 01:28   #281
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The option of not buying a 2nd hand Maruti has to do with street cred.
For the segment being aimed at by Tata Nano, street cred lies in the fact of being able to buy your own NEW car. It is more physcological than financial.
So lemme get this straight, you're saying that people can afford to buy a car but they won't because its not NEW but would rather ferry their's and the neighbour's family on the rickety old Bajaj two wheeler parked outside. I now see the '"physcological" part.
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Old 30th January 2008, 01:41   #282
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This perception is based on the fact that, people that could not afford (the two-wheeler crowd and the no-wheeler crowd), as well as those who could, but hesitated to buy an additional car would now buy a Tata Nano.

College students don't have to beg for daddy's additional car anymore.
The Bajaj Autorickshaw seems to be headed for the happy hunting grounds...
Point taken Sir and I agree with you to a large extent, but I just feel that atleast in the case of a place like Bombay don't you think that a lot of the the two-wheeler crowd and the no-wheeler crowd would still hesitate, I'm saying this because if they felt that they could afford to spend Rs. one lac on a car don't you think a lot more 2nd hand 800s would be on the road(I know I sound a little repetitive now!)? Personally I think the biggest market for the car in Bombay would be people who want a 2nd car as an everyday runabout for the wife etc.
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Old 30th January 2008, 02:38   #283
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There is, after all historical precedent...
The CitroŽn 2CV did this for France: Boulanger's early 1930s radical design of the CitroŽn 2CV -- a low-priced, rugged "umbrella on four wheels" for two villagers to drive 100 kg of produce to market at 60 km/h across kutchha roads.
And the 1937 Fiat Topolino did it for Italy...

Ram
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Old 30th January 2008, 05:54   #284
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Good point RajaTauras. I recently saw some interview in some media and the lady was saying Ratan Tata would have been a winner, had he built a low cost Bus than a low cost Car.

With all respect to Mr Tata, this was certainly a better option!
Our buses are already low-cost truck chassis setups.

Safer buses, YES. More powerful buses (better low end, not higher speeds), YES. CHEAPER? No thank you - or havent you bounced around enough in a contraption that has a passenger body in place of the load platform?

Those worried about our environment may be better off asking for the hundreds of thousands of badly maintained trucks, buses and contraptions like the Minidor to be taken off the roads. They spew so much pollution it is unbelievable.

But then of course they wont have one large corporate 'enemy' to throw stones at.

People like those are best ignored. They shouldnt be given any press. Starve them of attention and they will die a natural death.

Last edited by Steeroid : 30th January 2008 at 05:58.
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Old 30th January 2008, 10:31   #285
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Default What about After Sales and Service.

As we all know, Tata is not the best provider of After Sales and Service (AS & S).
Suppose they manage to sell 6 lakh Nano units, but then apart for raod rage and nature, how will they manage AS&S.

And dont think that maintanence wont be there, considering that this car is cheap and very affordable, people will definatley use it more roughly then lets say Wagon R/Santro.

I seriously doubt that Tata can deliver on As&s considering the present state of theirs as far as this is concerned.
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