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Old 7th September 2007, 23:55   #91
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Amit, you logic is correct, in an open minded economy, but incorrect in the one we both are in at present.

SKoda made it clear about launching a hatchback years ago when kings ruled in India. heheh. VW will not fail for sure. But yes, it sure does need a tight slap on its face with dwindling sales before it corrects the prices.

Nissan too needs a tight slap. I find the teana to be more in 17-18 lacs price range.

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Old 8th September 2007, 00:34   #92
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VW has made it clear that they plan to launch a small car in India as early as next year unlike Toyota that is still suggesting that their small car may be here by 2010! Why then is VW's India strategy is under fire? Let's have patience and let them first finish construction of their new plant. They are building a plant that can build 100K cars a year, surely, they must have some strategy in place to achieve that. It's too early to flame them now.
I am no fan of toyota either...check this out
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post544618 (Toyota Vios : When, How much ?)

I dont think toyota will achieve the status that they have in US and other countries. but we were talking of VW, and lets see whats their positioning for Jetta (expected next year).
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Old 8th September 2007, 00:45   #93
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A huge percentage of the showroom price would be the import duties/levies. I dont understand what's the worth paying so much to the government for the available roads/fuel.
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Old 8th September 2007, 01:51   #94
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A huge percentage of the showroom price would be the import duties/levies. I dont understand what's the worth paying so much to the government for the available roads/fuel.
Thats where localization comes in. They need to manufacture as many parts here as possible. I read somewhere that duties are 105%. So if they can achieve even 75% localization, price would drop to less than 13 lakhs. At that price point, volumes will be higher and they can use economies of scale(eos) to further drive down the price. That can become a cycle till they can achieve lowest possible price point.
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Old 8th September 2007, 06:00   #95
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The Passat launch is all about branding. People will see a hi tech car called VW. when the small car comes, they will think a-ha and go buy it.

Imagines the strategy, the other way around
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Old 8th September 2007, 14:22   #96
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But Ajmat, wouldnt that ruin Passat as a model? Yes, a cheap car will sell but the expensive car will suffer.
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Old 8th September 2007, 16:19   #97
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But Ajmat, wouldnt that ruin Passat as a model? Yes, a cheap car will sell but the expensive car will suffer.
Well, the expensive gizmo laden car will enable them to price their cheap car at premium prices and get away with it. The Passat will anyway sell in small numbers so I guess VW will use it to establish themselves as a company that makes hi-tech luxury cars and use that image to price their volume cars at higher prices then competition.

Still, the Passat, IMO, is more VFM then the Camry. Diesel engine and DSG aside, there are still a lot of gizmo's in the car to impress car buyers. I remember, prospective buyers and even VW loyals in Canada getting impressed with the gizmo's in the new Passat so surely Indian car buyers will react the same way. And mind you, the Canadian Passat doesn't come with a diesel or DSG!

If the Passat diesel was priced around Rs. 17-18 lakhs, I would have started saving from today!

Last edited by amit : 8th September 2007 at 16:30.
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Old 8th September 2007, 20:31   #98
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Well they may build a car plant with a capacity of 100,000 cars but unless they positin and price their cars intelligently they may have to either export most of their production or run their plant at very low levels of capacity utilization. There is Daewoo plant in Greater Noida which had a big capacity but poor planning was its nemesis. Only cows graze there now.
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Old 8th September 2007, 21:36   #99
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VW, especially the smaller cars, golf, polo, whatever, is considered overpriced in UK. It is another manufacturer that somehow manages to hold onto a great reputation without earning it like they used to.

They do it really well! Even having said that, they could still tempt me if I had the ready money!
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Old 9th September 2007, 22:23   #100
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Thats where localization comes in. They need to manufacture as many parts here as possible. I read somewhere that duties are 105%. So if they can achieve even 75% localization, price would drop to less than 13 lakhs. At that price point, volumes will be higher and they can use economies of scale(eos) to further drive down the price. That can become a cycle till they can achieve lowest possible price point.
hey....vw can not achieve 75% localization, its not a maruti. these cars have exceptional build quality and materials, which is not possible to get in india. even if they achieve a 30-40% localization, that would be great. its VW not a maruti or a hyundai. if they try to achieve that kind of localization levels, they would not be able to put in so much in there cars and would not be able to produce high quality car. this is the main reason why mercs,bmw,audis cost so high in india. even honda cars are very expensive due to the same reason. even honda hardly reaches 75% localization levels in their high end cars.
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Old 10th September 2007, 00:07   #101
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these cars have exceptional build quality and materials, which is not possible to get in india... its VW not a maruti or a hyundai. if they try to achieve that kind of localization levels, they would not be able to put in so much in there cars and would not be able to produce high quality car. this is the main reason why mercs,bmw,audis cost so high in india. even honda cars are very expensive due to the same reason. even honda hardly reaches 75% localization levels in their high end cars.
Probably they powder their cars and each and every part with rare zirconium/star dust ?
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Old 10th September 2007, 00:35   #102
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The Passat launch is all about branding. People will see a hi tech car called VW. when the small car comes, they will think a-ha and go buy it.

Imagines the strategy, the other way around
Most small car buyers will not even realize that Passat is launched (because there will be rarely any on road) or at what price (they don't care about that segment).
And the ones who (care to) know about it (like T-BHPians) would know about the scam.

Finally, the indian small car buyer is so price/value conscious and aware today that unless the product itself is competitive, it is unlikely to really make big numbers. Brand wise there are many strong brands already. With their high maintenance and expensive spares (and A S S which sucks), they just don;t stand much chance.

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Old 10th September 2007, 16:19   #103
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In an earlier post, I had posted that inspite of the hype being built up by VW, Passat is now declining in all major markets which are EU and US. In its traditional stronghold Europe, VW group as a whole reported declining sales in Jan-June 2007. Data from ACEA for this period indicates that the major manufacturers losing share over Jan-June 2006 were VW, GM, Renault, Mercedes, Hyundai, and Nissan. Those who gained share include Audi, Ford, Fiat, Toyota, and Honda.

As for individual sales of VW models, here are the VW sales for Jan-May 2006 and Jan-May 2007:
Caddy 14,181 12,038
Crafter 71 750
Eos 2,056 16,473
Fox 35,705 25,903
Golf 184,399 179,049
Golf Plus 54,949 46,250
Jetta 25,772 23,237
New Beetle 9,836 6,837
Other 4,066 2,215
Passat 150,238 138,389
Phaeton 1,630 1,552
Polo 129,563 126,968
Sharan 11,737 9,565
Touareg 17,518 15,560
Touran 67,679 72,549
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Old 10th September 2007, 16:29   #104
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[quote=sanchits;558302]hey....vw can not achieve 75% localization, its not a maruti. these cars have exceptional build quality and materials, which is not possible to get in india. even if they achieve a 30-40% localization, that would be great. its VW not a maruti or a hyundai. if they try to achieve that kind of localization levels, they would not be able to put in so much in there cars and would not be able to produce high quality car.

Wow!. Never knew in recent experience of VW making an exceptional build quality car. Perhaps a visit to websites of Business Week, Fortune, Economist, JD Power, Consumer Reports may cause a change in opinion. So great build quality of VW but the poor consumer is such a fool that he prefers to buy a comparable Toyota and Honda rather than the lemons that VW sells. This is reflected in the only numbers that count: sales and profits. VW was great but the world has changed. People should do their own research rather than rely on company PR handouts and glowing reports from Indian car journalists just back home from an all expenses paid trips (by the manfacturer of course) to Europe. Caveat emptor (Buyer beware).
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Old 11th September 2007, 01:50   #105
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[quote=vasudeva;559107]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanchits View Post
hey....vw can not achieve 75% localization, its not a maruti. these cars have exceptional build quality and materials, which is not possible to get in india. even if they achieve a 30-40% localization, that would be great. its VW not a maruti or a hyundai. if they try to achieve that kind of localization levels, they would not be able to put in so much in there cars and would not be able to produce high quality car.

Wow!. Never knew in recent experience of VW making an exceptional build quality car. Perhaps a visit to websites of Business Week, Fortune, Economist, JD Power, Consumer Reports may cause a change in opinion. So great build quality of VW but the poor consumer is such a fool that he prefers to buy a comparable Toyota and Honda rather than the lemons that VW sells. This is reflected in the only numbers that count: sales and profits. VW was great but the world has changed. People should do their own research rather than rely on company PR handouts and glowing reports from Indian car journalists just back home from an all expenses paid trips (by the manfacturer of course) to Europe. Caveat emptor (Buyer beware).
dude...skoda,VW and Audi ...all of these brands are known fro there exceptional build quality. dude i dont think you have even seen a skoda...its built like a tank..then think about a VW passat. get your stats right...these cars are known for their build quality. i am not sayin that honda or toyota are bad cars but are no where near to these cars in terms of build quality and materials used. i am talking about the quality to prove that high localization is not possible.
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