indian cars v/s international scene - Page 2 - Team-BHP

Mayavi · 7th July 2007, 04:44

Oh I forgot, its been only 17 years since we made economic reforms making it easy for private enterprise to create wealth and the economic boom actually took off in late 90's. In that 17 years, we grew from having a few thousand dollar millionares to over 70,000. These are people who can really afford exotics and I think they are buying them up at a quick pace compared to even dubai.

Thad E Ginathom · 7th July 2007, 09:48

70,000 in a population of over a billion.

They could have a Rolls Royce each and hardly anybody would notice...

But never mind the economics, there is a big cultural difference here. Many of the older generation dislike showing off their wealth, and also helped to make it by being very careful what they spent, and being very against extravagance.

And, lets face it, a Rolls Royce is not everyone's dream car (make mine a Bentley, please

) and a fleet of them (or any other wildly expensive 'exotic' cars) seems a somewhat distasteful show of wealth to many of us, of many and varied racial and cultural backgrounds, not just the white-shirt-white-vesti Tamilians who wouldn't dream of showing off like that.

mehran · 7th July 2007, 18:00

the Orange ac version is shaikh hisham frm abudhabi.. he has also got a special edition of lamborghini & a hummer H1 wid spin rims all these cars he has got r orange..
the superchaged range rover reg. no 1991 is the only son of a big reputed firm.. they deal wid exclusive watches got 17 top brands of watches under their roof....

will post u wid few other amazing beauties on dubai rds.
till thn tc & drive safe

dxb roller · 7th July 2007, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayavi

Ok, that is really bad math. You dont slash the number of cars by half to make up for the 100% import duty. If you can sell 10 units at a price tag of 1 crore, it doesnt mean you can sell only 20 units at 50 lakhs. No sire, at 50 lakhs, you can sell may be 50 units because the number of people in that income bracket are much more than people in higher income bracket.
An easy example is the sales of B segment cars. If Swift sells 1000 units a month at 5 Lakhs, it can sell 10,000 units a month at 2.5 lakhs.e

Second, when you compare two cities be it cars or consumer goods, you have to take into consideration the per-capita, infrastructure, taxes and many other things. IIRC Dubais per-capita is over $15,000 where as Indian per-capita is $700. If you only consider Mumbai or Delhi, it is still not more than $5000. Obviously dubai is a rich country and couple it with low taxes, it is even more easy to afford cars. Also, they have better infra where they can really drive their cars which is lacking in India.

Third, well, its a question for you. Why are there so many exotics in Dubai when they don't seem to have any solid industrial base?

hey mayavi

ok first of all its mathematicly correct but yes ur right in such cases the economic point of view must also be taken into consideration if ur familiar with a bit of eco then you will know about the term price elasticity in the case of high end and low end products(here high end cars) the price elasticiy is relatively inelastic in other words the percentage of change in demand would be much less if compared to the percentage of change in price.

secodn of all i think ur taking this to personaly i mention it right in the begaining im not defying anyone but just doing a comparitive analysis to see on its way to have a great car scene where india has reached

and regarding the exotics part as in why there are with no industrial base, well thats why they have been diversifiying and growing at such a fast rate in the past 4 or 5 years

2_fast · 8th July 2007, 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb roller

hey mayavi

ok first of all its mathematicly correct but yes ur right in such cases the economic point of view must also be taken into consideration if ur familiar with a bit of eco then you will know about the term price elasticity in the case of high end and low end products(here high end cars) the price elasticiy is relatively inelastic in other words the percentage of change in demand would be much less if compared to the percentage of change in price.

secodn of all i think ur taking this to personaly i mention it right in the begaining im not defying anyone but just doing a comparitive analysis to see on its way to have a great car scene where india has reached

and regarding the exotics part as in why there are with no industrial base, well thats why they have been diversifiying and growing at such a fast rate in the past 4 or 5 years

As economies develop they move from an industrial base to a Services led industry. In my opinion India in general is 15-20 years behind the developed countries in terms of Infrastructure, Legislation & Law Reforms, Health & Social Welfare.
Dubai in its early stages was built by British Expat Architects and coupled with being a smaller country its planning and investment is bearing fruits. Lets give Dubai the credit it deserves as in a short while it has moved from being a Desert to a holiday destination and many Westerners have invested there; therfore the Exotics spotted in Dubai is as a result of movement in to a Services based industry that also increased the per capita income.
In India a percentage of people have the money but the infrastructure and current reforms are not enough and does not permit a rational decision to invest in a high end automobile unless it is for personal recognition or one is an enthusiast.

I stand to be corrected but this is my view.

awini · 8th July 2007, 03:29

man... if i wanted a lesson in world economics, i would have done so in college...cut the financial analysis guys!!
we indians were never really interested in exotics ever!!
we are a conservative people, and dont like spending too much.especially on depriciating assets like cars.
even before 1947, with all the maharajas wealth, hardly any exotics came to india.
we prefered the value for money rolls royces and bentleys which came here in the hundreds. hardly any true exotics came here.
just 20 Bugattis,6 Duesenbergs,1 Maybach Zeppelin(a gift to a maharaja, so not paid for) 2 cadillac V16s,1 isotta-fraschini,1 farman,2 or 3 F&F Delayayes, perhaps a couple of talbot-lagos, a handful of invictas lagondas and supercharged mercedes.etc
so with over 600 small and big princely states,plus wealthy businessmen and traders, perhaps just about 50 odd real exotics were bought by indians with all their money, and keeping in mind that no duties were paid on royal cars!!
gold and diamonds... well thats another story, but we were never historically really interested in spending on cars as a people on the whole.
even now, whos stopping anyone from importing exotics?the money is there, over 15 new phantoms have been sold in india at more than twice the price abroad, 1oo% is just customs duty, dont forget state taxes and insurance costs etc, why isnt anyone buying cheaper cars like the wonderful CL? why not maseratis?
i want to buy a new car and like the new CRV, but i wont pay 20 lakhs (50,000 dollars) for a stripped down car which costs 25,000 dollars fully loaded !! to me, a skoda superb makes more sense, a little more money gives a lot more features.or if maruti gives the grand vitara for CRV money, but with their V6 engine, not the crappy 2L 4cyl even though its cheaper.
to sum up, foriegn cars are not great value for money at the moment, so we wont buy them

Mayavi · 8th July 2007, 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb roller

the price elasticiy is relatively inelastic in other words the percentage of change in demand would be much less if compared to the percentage of change in price.

How can demand be inelastic when you are talking about a 100% drop in prices?

Quote:

secodn of all i think ur taking this to personaly i mention it right in the begaining im not defying anyone but just doing a comparitive analysis to see on its way to have a great car scene where india has reached

err... what did I take 'personally'? I only said that you need to compare apples with apples and not pineapples as even though both have the term apple in it they are vastly different.

Quote:

and regarding the exotics part as in why there are with no industrial base, well thats why they have been diversifiying and growing at such a fast rate in the past 4 or 5 years

Well, my question was not about what Dubai is trying to do on the economic front, but about how it amassed so much wealth (which translated into exotics) without having any industrial base? I hope you are aware that Dubai's per-capita fell from around $25,000 in 1990's to $17,000 or so now (I need to recheck). So how come you have so many exotics in Dubai?

Ram · 8th July 2007, 08:55

When the European sold the Middle-east, a luxury transport, the product of his intellect and industry, he capitalized on their inability to produce one themselves, and therefore, exacted a high-price from them.

For the European it was part of his economic march forward ! "Progress" if you will!

The Middle-east paid for it, not with their own intellect and abilities, but with the depleting pool of fossil crude under their feet.

Is depending only on imports, progress?

When you build an industrial base and an information economy, and produce offerings that are consumed domestically as well as exported; That is progress.

With her expanding pool of innovative talent and natural resources, India will one day compete with, even surpass the countries that invented the car. Can we say the same for those dimunitive transhipment and trading dots on the world map? examples: Singapore and Dubai.

When the world marches away from fossil fuels -- as they most certainly will, towards more sustainable biofuel transportation, what will the petroworld do, but crumble back into desert sand?

Opinions?

Mayavi · 8th July 2007, 10:32

Unfortunately for us ram, very few among us are capable of seeing what's hinding beneath all the bling bling. People can only see the high rises and exotics and only wonder why we cant have the same back home. They are oblivious to the fact that we have an entirely different dynamics at play here.

v1p3r · 8th July 2007, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ram

With her expanding pool of innovative talent and natural resources, India will one day compete with, even surpass the countries that invented the car. Can we say the same for those dimunitive transhipment and trading dots on the world map? examples: Singapore and Dubai.

I would think twice before saying that Singapore or Dubai will be easily surpassed. Singapore has 70% the forex reserves of India and 0.4% the population of India. Dubai, incidentally, has less than 3% of its income through petrodollars.

We aren't going to get anywhere as a country as long as we're corrupt and apathetic towards our governance.

esteem_lover · 8th July 2007, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

the white-shirt-white-vesti Tamilians who wouldn't dream of showing off like that.

But they (We) do show off a lot of stuff with their almost transparent veshtis. LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Dubai, incidentally, has less than 3% of its income through petrodollars.

Where does the remaining 97% come from ?

paras211 · 9th July 2007, 00:40

its all coz of the 100% duty.also the manufacturers are to blame fornot bringing out sporty options . eg the civic si,corolla xrs,turbo charged hatches,only skoda has bought the rs here. the fabia with the rs engine should be super but i dont think there is one

tsk1979 · 9th July 2007, 00:42

Dubai is moving away from Petro economy and pushing itself as a haven for the super rich.
As for Singapore its a major trade hub.
Many countries have progressed without having any mineral resources or oil. Slowly maybe India will progress too. The car scene progression will come much later, but with true globalization its inevitable

v1p3r · 9th July 2007, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Where does the remaining 97% come from ?

Trade, tourism, property, IT, and there used to be a lot of gold-smuggling to India as well.

extreme_torque · 9th July 2007, 08:34

Agree with viper completely. We as a country are going nowhere, wealth is still concentrated, i still have to fight for basic neccesities like clean drinking water and electricity and I live in new delhi! The apathy to social issues and issues in general is disgusting reflected in the kind of media we have. Amitabh bacchan's bunglow filled with water makes a prime time headline news, when its the common man who's the sufferer year after year and they talk of mumbai spirit... heck its no spirit, poor people they dont have any options. The mindset of the society is also reflected in the people we elect and how we use our most basic and most powerful fundamental right... the right to vote. We just take everything for granted, the "chalta hai" attitude, we just dont want to improve. There's no humanity left, religion is more important than anything else. We still fight over petty issues when we should be doing nation building. We are the biggest hypocrats on this planet (dont ask me to elaborate on this).
There's no India, and there no "We', its only 'Me'.

An IT pro startup earns close to 20k's a month roughly and even if he makes a downpayment of 70k's he will still be paying more than 1/4th of his salary as the EMI for his car and all this for a santro or a wagonr.. the developed world's trash (no offence to anyone) and in the end he's left with no money to actually run the car! So much so for the exotics... they are for the mighty rich or the sons and daughter's of politicians not for me... a middle class Indian. There's no one who speaks for me, I pay all the taxes and I get apathy in return and still I think, think of the day when things will improve... for I am an eternal optimist .

7th July 2007, 18:00	#18 (permalink)
mehran Newbie Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: dubai Posts: 30	the Orange ac version is shaikh hisham frm abudhabi.. he has also got a special edition of lamborghini & a hummer H1 wid spin rims all these cars he has got r orange.. the superchaged range rover reg. no 1991 is the only son of a big reputed firm.. they deal wid exclusive watches got 17 top brands of watches under their roof.... will post u wid few other amazing beauties on dubai rds. till thn tc & drive safe __________________ %" ITS NOT HOW U STAND BY UR CAR....... ITS HOW U RACE UR CAR"% [php] PERFORMANCE GROUP[/php] *DUBAI*

8th July 2007, 08:55	#23 (permalink)
Ram Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mumbai, Pune, München Posts: 1,552 View My Garage	Really what, is this thing called progress? When the European sold the Middle-east, a luxury transport, the product of his intellect and industry, he capitalized on their inability to produce one themselves, and therefore, exacted a high-price from them. For the European it was part of his economic march forward ! "Progress" if you will! The Middle-east paid for it, not with their own intellect and abilities, but with the depleting pool of fossil crude under their feet. Is depending only on imports, progress? When you build an industrial base and an information economy, and produce offerings that are consumed domestically as well as exported; That is progress. With her expanding pool of innovative talent and natural resources, India will one day compete with, even surpass the countries that invented the car. Can we say the same for those dimunitive transhipment and trading dots on the world map? examples: Singapore and Dubai. When the world marches away from fossil fuels -- as they most certainly will, towards more sustainable biofuel transportation, what will the petroworld do, but crumble back into desert sand? Opinions? __________________ When you struggle for something and fail, that’s when you get Experience!

9th July 2007, 00:40	#27 (permalink)
paras211 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 262 View My Garage	its all coz of the 100% duty.also the manufacturers are to blame fornot bringing out sporty options . eg the civic si,corolla xrs,turbo charged hatches,only skoda has bought the rs here. the fabia with the rs engine should be super but i dont think there is one __________________ Ashes to Ashes,clay to clay. *If your enemies wont get you, your own folks MAY*

9th July 2007, 00:42	#28 (permalink)
tsk1979 Team-BHP Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Noida, New Delhi Posts: 8,340 View My Garage	Dubai is moving away from Petro economy and pushing itself as a haven for the super rich. As for Singapore its a major trade hub. Many countries have progressed without having any mineral resources or oil. Slowly maybe India will progress too. The car scene progression will come much later, but with true globalization its inevitable __________________ Reclaiming.....!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/international-automotive-scene/25210-1957-plymouth-belv	Ram	The International Automotive Scene	0	12th June 2007 17:32
The Indian Rallying scene - why??	normally_crazy	Motor-Sports!!	27	25th January 2005 20:18
Why a palio 1.6 not seen in the indian rally scene	techn0l0gist	The Indian Car Scene!!	6	13th September 2004 09:45

7th July 2007, 04:44	#16 (permalink)
Mayavi BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 516	Oh I forgot, its been only 17 years since we made economic reforms making it easy for private enterprise to create wealth and the economic boom actually took off in late 90's. In that 17 years, we grew from having a few thousand dollar millionares to over 70,000. These are people who can really afford exotics and I think they are buying them up at a quick pace compared to even dubai.

7th July 2007, 09:48	#17 (permalink)
Thad E Ginathom BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 976	70,000 in a population of over a billion. They could have a Rolls Royce each and hardly anybody would notice... But never mind the economics, there is a big cultural difference here. Many of the older generation dislike showing off their wealth, and also helped to make it by being very careful what they spent, and being very against extravagance. And, lets face it, a Rolls Royce is not everyone's dream car (make mine a Bentley, please ) and a fleet of them (or any other wildly expensive 'exotic' cars) seems a somewhat distasteful show of wealth to many of us, of many and varied racial and cultural backgrounds, not just the white-shirt-white-vesti Tamilians who wouldn't dream of showing off like that.

8th July 2007, 03:29	#21 (permalink)
awini BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 284	man... if i wanted a lesson in world economics, i would have done so in college...cut the financial analysis guys!! we indians were never really interested in exotics ever!! we are a conservative people, and dont like spending too much.especially on depriciating assets like cars. even before 1947, with all the maharajas wealth, hardly any exotics came to india. we prefered the value for money rolls royces and bentleys which came here in the hundreds. hardly any true exotics came here. just 20 Bugattis,6 Duesenbergs,1 Maybach Zeppelin(a gift to a maharaja, so not paid for) 2 cadillac V16s,1 isotta-fraschini,1 farman,2 or 3 F&F Delayayes, perhaps a couple of talbot-lagos, a handful of invictas lagondas and supercharged mercedes.etc so with over 600 small and big princely states,plus wealthy businessmen and traders, perhaps just about 50 odd real exotics were bought by indians with all their money, and keeping in mind that no duties were paid on royal cars!! gold and diamonds... well thats another story, but we were never historically really interested in spending on cars as a people on the whole. even now, whos stopping anyone from importing exotics?the money is there, over 15 new phantoms have been sold in india at more than twice the price abroad, 1oo% is just customs duty, dont forget state taxes and insurance costs etc, why isnt anyone buying cheaper cars like the wonderful CL? why not maseratis? i want to buy a new car and like the new CRV, but i wont pay 20 lakhs (50,000 dollars) for a stripped down car which costs 25,000 dollars fully loaded !! to me, a skoda superb makes more sense, a little more money gives a lot more features.or if maruti gives the grand vitara for CRV money, but with their V6 engine, not the crappy 2L 4cyl even though its cheaper. to sum up, foriegn cars are not great value for money at the moment, so we wont buy them

8th July 2007, 10:32	#24 (permalink)
Mayavi BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 516	Unfortunately for us ram, very few among us are capable of seeing what's hinding beneath all the bling bling. People can only see the high rises and exotics and only wonder why we cant have the same back home. They are oblivious to the fact that we have an entirely different dynamics at play here.

9th July 2007, 08:34	#30 (permalink)
extreme_torque Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,241	Agree with viper completely. We as a country are going nowhere, wealth is still concentrated, i still have to fight for basic neccesities like clean drinking water and electricity and I live in new delhi! The apathy to social issues and issues in general is disgusting reflected in the kind of media we have. Amitabh bacchan's bunglow filled with water makes a prime time headline news, when its the common man who's the sufferer year after year and they talk of mumbai spirit... heck its no spirit, poor people they dont have any options. The mindset of the society is also reflected in the people we elect and how we use our most basic and most powerful fundamental right... the right to vote. We just take everything for granted, the "chalta hai" attitude, we just dont want to improve. There's no humanity left, religion is more important than anything else. We still fight over petty issues when we should be doing nation building. We are the biggest hypocrats on this planet (dont ask me to elaborate on this). There's no India, and there no "We', its only 'Me'. An IT pro startup earns close to 20k's a month roughly and even if he makes a downpayment of 70k's he will still be paying more than 1/4th of his salary as the EMI for his car and all this for a santro or a wagonr.. the developed world's trash (no offence to anyone) and in the end he's left with no money to actually run the car! So much so for the exotics... they are for the mighty rich or the sons and daughter's of politicians not for me... a middle class Indian. There's no one who speaks for me, I pay all the taxes and I get apathy in return and still I think, think of the day when things will improve... for I am an eternal optimist .