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Old 11th July 2007, 03:52   #46
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Would India have so many super cars, imports and even ordinary econo sedans without any change happening, without people getting rich? The glass is more than half full and you see it as only half full?
The glass is full for many of us. Unfortunately, for many MORE, it is EMPTY. The socio-economic divides are widening faster than you would think possible. And with all due respect, you're going to see that more easily if you live here than Scottsdale, AZ.

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America has 90% white population and 10% black
Sorry to nitpick, but the US is under 75% white.
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Old 11th July 2007, 04:49   #47
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The glass is full for many of us. Unfortunately, for many MORE, it is EMPTY. The socio-economic divides are widening faster than you would think possible. And with all due respect, you're going to see that more easily if you live here than Scottsdale, AZ.
What exactly would I know living in India that I would not by living in AZ other than the sights and sounds? Would 30% population under poverty sound better or worse if I see some shanty towns in filthy surroundings?
I cannot speak about conditions where you are living but we are talking about whole of India here. A remote village in bihar is as far to me as it is to you, so how does living outside country matter?

Lets keep it real. Poverty, illiteracy, corruption, socio-economic divides, disease etc will never be completely eradicated no matter how much we progress. The only thing we can do with a democracy/free market economy is to reduce these evils. Personally, I would be happy if we can provide good health care/sanitation for all and keep poverty to under 15%.
All the macro economic data indicates that we are moving forward and not backward. We achieved nothing in 40 years of license raj and its only now that peoples standard of living is improving. Unfortunately the price we pay with liberalization is that a section of the society will be marginalized and cannot reap the benefits of the economic boom. Not good, but we tried the other alternative of asset distribution/equality communist crap and it didn't work. We are going down a new road and so far it seems to be working.


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Sorry to nitpick, but the US is under 75% white.
white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.2% (2003 est.)
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Old 11th July 2007, 05:30   #48
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Ram and Mayavi

for those who think India is going nowhere, you are in for a shock.. we are growing guys, and in a way that not many can realize

just wait for 10yrs and you will realize what I am talking about. its also possible that we will see many things that we never imagined in a lifetime

for now, i am waiting for an indian IT firm to take-over a big MNC
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Old 11th July 2007, 07:13   #49
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Vabs, you dont live in India either right?
May be this is something we need to analyze a bit deeper. People living outside India feel that India is making progress while those in india think it is rotting. It used to be the other way around, people who left the shores for greener pastures used to bad mouth India thanks to the negative image of India but now the things seems to have reversed.
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Old 11th July 2007, 08:37   #50
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btw 12,000 crores isnt 4.8 trillion $$$
Sorry my bad.
12,000 crore USD is 4.8 trillion INR.
12,000 crore INR is 2.97 billion USD
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Old 11th July 2007, 09:47   #51
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The macro data & the ever improving image of india abroad do not reflect the true state of the country. Yes, we drive flashy cars now & buy apartments for 50L to 5 Cr, but we still do not have clean drinking water or proper roads or proper law enforcement. These things have not changed for the last 60 years. Unless there are changes in every facet of life, we cannot go yapping around saying that we are going to rule the world. YES, we have progressed like any nation would/should. But, seriously i do not know where we are headed since the base is not strong, maybe there will be a civil war one day to settle all issues.
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Old 11th July 2007, 11:44   #52
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The macro data & the ever improving image of india abroad do not reflect the true state of the country.
Is this just a personal feeling or is there a formal study report to pooh-pooh the macroeconomic data?

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Yes, we drive flashy cars now & buy apartments for 50L to 5 Cr, but we still do not have clean drinking water or proper roads or proper law enforcement. These things have not changed for the last 60 years.
There are better places and there are worse places. From personal experience, in my part of Pune, I have drunk unfiltered municipal water on some instances for the last three years without incident and in my childhood drank Bombay municipal water through the fifties, sixties and seventies. In the eighties and nineties I lived in the USA and Europe where I was cautioned against drinking municipal tap water.

Yet I know there are cities in India that now live on bottled water, although the average village still drinks out of the well and pond.

The Mumbai Pune Expressway that I drive on is as close to world-class as you can get. That said, I believe the world's worst mud roads all-year-around are found in Bolivia, South America.

And law enforcement and crime detection varies from Mumbai to Pune to Bangalore to Chennai to Delhi, depending on political motivation.

It's still better that Johannesburg, South Africa, where I was asked not to roll down my taxi windows for fear of being attacked at a traffic light, where businessmen need their own private police force complete with lightbar-equipped cars.

With the dramatic increase in mass private property: shopping malls and gated colonies, there is a dramatic increase in private police forces. Fear of crime among property-owners has grown faster than government’s willingness to spend more money on police protection. This is best seen in Johannesburg, South Africa but also in New York.

Private policing is splitting the world into two camps: the wealthy, who can afford to insulate themselves from crime by hiring private police, and the poor, who must rely on the more limited services of the public police.

So glad to live in India.

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover
Unless there are changes in every facet of life, we cannot go yapping around saying that we are going to rule the world.
Changes won't happen in every facet of life overnight. Slowly bit by bit we are getting better.
India and China will certainly move to take a top spot in the global scheme of things.
Every global management school is talking about it. Every global government is worrying about that and planning measures.

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YES, we have progressed like any nation would/should. But, seriously i do not know where we are headed since the base is not strong, maybe there will be a civil war one day to settle all issues.
Does it inspire confidence for the future, for someone to say they are blindly stumbling any which way? Let those who lead the world of corporates, NGOs, of public opinion, and of education, progress from babysteps to big strides regardless.

India has not seen civil war from time immemorial, so whence this delusion of doom?

Ram
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Old 11th July 2007, 12:04   #53
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NOTE FROM MODERATOR: This thread is going way too off topic. Kindly avoid off-topic and political discussion.
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Old 11th July 2007, 22:32   #54
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hey people please lets back to the topic with just using other material as a support
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Old 12th July 2007, 00:27   #55
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Ok, I see no end to this argument, so I quit. But this is a bit puzzling:
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white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.2% (2003 est.)
Where did all the people of Latin and Hispanic origin go? Last I remember, they were more than the blacks.
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Old 12th July 2007, 09:47   #56
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Topic head: indian cars v/s international scene and what are we discussing here?

Guys please don't force us to delete posts from here. Please stick to the topic.
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Old 12th July 2007, 10:30   #57
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Where did all the people of Latin and Hispanic origin go? Last I remember, they were more than the blacks.
Hispanics, Latin Americans come from different ethnic groups, skin colors so they are not shown separately. The above is from CIA fact book.
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Old 12th July 2007, 11:04   #58
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Somehow, i feel there cant really be any further value addition on this thread, and mods, i think its better we close it.

Its a fact that the auto scene is amazing in Dubai, and not yet there in India. But then, thats not the only thing thats different.
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Old 12th July 2007, 11:08   #59
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Hi, just some thoughts from someone on the threshold of moving back to India..

Yes, it is true that there are a large number of supercars and exotics in the UAE, but to give an indication of why this part of the world is looked to as being so ostentatious, you have to consider car-to-population ratio.

India has over a billion people, the UAE has officially estimated 4.4million (of which only 20% are citizens. Rest are expatriate workers). Do the math and see what number of cars would have to be 'seen' in each nation to be considered as being everywhere.

India has a local auto industry, UAE cannot dream of one. They import 100% of almost all their requirements, so naturally they cannot take the moral high ground and impose restrictive duties.

Indians work much harder for their money, and added to our inherent conservativeness, try to squeeze more value out of each buck (Changing, i know, but still true). A UAE national can sit back at home, and sign papers once year as sleeping partner holding 51% stake in any business, and his payments reach him at home. Add to this the fact that the Govt takes care of his healthcare, education, housing, he gets a cash payout when he marries another UAE national, and he enjoys approximately 50% reservation in public sector jobs in his favour. Any person with the slightest initiative will be able to make enough money a year just by signing on the dotted line.

Due to traffic in Dubai, it is an absolute nightmare trying to get around the city, and now with the newly imposed toll, the Govt is very clearly sending a message to all expats, 'If you earn it here, spend it here'. Still, it is very heartening to be stuck in a jam with a Ferrari next to you, and all you hear is the growl when he revvs up to close the gap!

In conclusion, I would say that the two markets are worlds apart, and cannot be compared like for like. The UAE has vehicles that are relevant to its standard of living, and India is seeing an ever growing number of international brands and models entering the country, because of its position as an emerging market (and one of the most aggressive ones).

And to the person who started this thread: apartments for 75 million?? Rupees or Dirhams? You must mean an entie building! This sort of urban legend is what keeps the Dubai Hype flying high..
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Old 12th July 2007, 11:36   #60
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This thread should have been indian cars v/s dubai car scene. Look, I think in a way this comparison is unfair. Dubai has no income tax and no duties on cars that we have. There is wealth, people dont mind the extravagance and whats more, cars and fuel happen to be cheaper.
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