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Old 14th October 2009, 21:40   #106
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Anything invented by a man is always breakable by another! And Indians are known to be amongst the most resourceful lot anywhere!
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Old 14th October 2009, 21:42   #107
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No Gansan, Any chain with chain links can and will break.
The welding will never hold up to simple brute force.

You need a chain that does not depend on welding.

If your chain does not have welding then what I said above is pointless and of no consequence. But if its a welded chain link type chain, try inserting two screw drivers into adjacent link and twist in opposite direction.


Anyways, we are digressing from the topic.

The only way I can think of iCats being overcome is if the dealership was involved somehow.

Or they have figured out a way to break the ECU code. But to do that they need to be able to access the cars electric system.
i.e. at least the bonnet will need to be opened up.

All such acts will bring attention to the thief and they will avoid it.
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Old 14th October 2009, 21:47   #108
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Gear locks etc are all deterrents. A determined thief can break any lock and take the car.

That said, deterrents work very well. If a thief has a choice of stealing a car with just iCats or a car with iCats and gear-lock, he will pick the former. So, in my opinion, having a gear lock greatly reduces the probability of car being stolen.
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Old 14th October 2009, 22:00   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Maybe we should all do what Mr.Bean does - had a padlock on the car door itself!
I once saw Mr Bean secure his car with a simple procedure -- he simply removed the steering wheel from his car. Beat that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
That is why I use a special Dindigul lock to secure my new Alto! I mean, on the gate behind the car, not on the car itself!

Very cost effective! I don't trust i-cat, autocop and what not. Though we have a watchman, the watchmen of two ATMs that are opposite/adjacent to our apartment also receive monthly bakshish to keep an eye on our cars!
What if, just what if, the watchmen receive additional 'bakshish' from an unknown person to "keep a watch on your car"? Many a burglary has been committed with the involvement of a "security guard" either as an accomplice or culprit.

Regards,
Melvyn

Last edited by misquitas : 14th October 2009 at 22:16.
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Old 14th October 2009, 22:08   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.I.N.G.H View Post
as claimed by maruti, their latest technology ICATS (the chip inside the key) would protect the marutis from being stolen. but there have been so many cases of thefts of altos and sx4's. the integrated chips haven't made any difference!!
Any reports pointing to the same, or is this based on a guess/hearsay?
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Old 14th October 2009, 22:17   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misquitas View Post
What if, just what if, the watchmen receive receive additional 'bakshish' from an unknown person to "keep a watch on your car"? Many a burglary has been committed with the involvement of a "security guard" either as an accomplice or culprit.

Very possible Melvyn! But he will have to guess that the security men of the two ATMs are also watching our cars at night. His instinct will be to try and compromise our apartment security fellow only, who does not know about the other two! Moreover the frontage of our complex is well lit with two sodium vapour street lamps, at both ends of the building.

No, a car can be taken away by force from our place, but never be stolen!
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Old 14th October 2009, 23:17   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
Or they have figured out a way to break the ECU code. But to do that they need to be able to access the cars electric system.
i.e. at least the bonnet will need to be opened up.

They don't have to break the ECU.

There are two issues:
  1. Its easy to replace ECU with a broken one. In fact, theft of ECU has become a major issue.
  2. iCats and other similar systems are not perfect. It is possible to build more secure Keyfobs, but building one that:
    1. Would work even if Key has been lying in hot sun
    2. Would be moisture resistant
    3. Would be cheap enough to fit in Alto/800
Is not feasible.

There are known vulnerabilities in such systems.

And ALL thieves get help from mechs.

So, ordinary thief would just replace ECU and drive away.

Larger gangs would have Key+tools that would break challenge + response game that ECU and keys play (In few mins).
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Old 15th October 2009, 21:14   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhibh View Post
There is work around for gear locks too. UNIVERSAL KEY as they keymaker told me!
Yeah, you are right. The key part is the weakest link of steering & gear locks !
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Old 15th October 2009, 22:17   #114
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No one is willing to categorically state whether they personally know of an iCATs equipped car being stolen!
Instead, people are proffering all kinds of information about BMWs and Mercks being stolen! Where? In India? And were these iCATs equipped?
Our car thieves have not gone so hi-tech yet.
It is not impossible to steal an iCATs car, just that it needs more sophisticated equipment or a clean spare ECU (along with the know-how on how to rapidly change it)!!
Further, a car can always be towed away, if parked suitably!! Who accosts a tow truck to check that they are indeed 'authorized' to tow away a vehicle?

Because of the iCATs issue, car-jackings and gun-point thefts are on the rise!

I'm toying with the idea of moving the location of the ECU in my car! Leave a dummy in the stock postiton, with all wires intact, but have the real thing fitted elsewhere!
That should help, eh?
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Old 16th October 2009, 11:00   #115
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Was iCats available around nov 2007?

For bomb blasts, terrorists stole 10 - 12 cars from new bombay. Form registration series it appears 3 cars were registered around nov 07.

E.g : MH-43-AF

List of car numbers stolen during attacks :
Missing Navi Mumbai cars worry police - dnaindia.com
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Old 14th November 2009, 10:55   #116
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Guys, leave alone ICATS, t today I saw that the door lock of the Alto can be opened in a jiffy! I visited my MASS (True Value attached) this very morning to check out old type Zens for a friend. I had absent mindedly locked the keys inside the car, so I requested a SA to open it for me. He hesitated because he did not know me, so I had to wait till my regular SA turned up (it was 8.30 AM).

As soon as he turnd up, he told a mechanic to open it for me. This fellow brought an ordinary aluminium scale (the kind school boys use), inserted it in to the beading of the driver's door, pushed the lock down and opened it in seconds. As he stood close to the car when he did this, nobody would have even noticed that he was in fact not using a key.

I am planning to carry a small sized scale myself for such emergencies now!

Last edited by Gansan : 14th November 2009 at 10:56.
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Old 14th November 2009, 11:22   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Was iCats available around nov 2007?

For bomb blasts, terrorists stole 10 - 12 cars from new bombay. Form registration series it appears 3 cars were registered around nov 07.

E.g : MH-43-AF

List of car numbers stolen during attacks :
Missing Navi Mumbai cars worry police - dnaindia.com

IIRC, that was the time when iCATS was optional and they used to charge extra for it. Some time during that period, they made iCATS standard, and of coruse, jacked up the prices.
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Old 14th November 2009, 11:44   #118
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iCATs (intelligent Computerized Anti-Theft system) works on the principle of multiplexed communication where an inbuilt transponder, into the car key, carries a unique electronic identification and a secret code that digitally communicates with the engine computer via a controller. The car engine starts only if the secret code matches thus preventing the car from being stolen.

iCATS is just a preventive measure like other security devices, One cannot guarantee that his car will not be stolen with the iCATS on, If some one parks his car on a deserted road (due to some technical problem or no fuel) what is the possibility that no other parts or accessories will not be stolen (Eg Wheels etc), you cannot lock your all wheels to the car..
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Old 14th November 2009, 12:05   #119
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Better still, as shown in Slumdog Millionaire - put four jacks under any car (one shown was a merc), remove the expensive alloy wheels and tyres, and you have nowhere to go but a lot to spend
By the way, iCATS is not tamper-proof. There are preset substitute ECUs available which can be switched easily. The people who sell can themselves come and do it for the culprit.
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Old 14th November 2009, 13:48   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Maybe we should all do what Mr.Bean does - had a padlock on the car door itself!

Maybe one those Yale locks (the one that cannot be sawed or broken) should be used if so and not the Dindigul one!


Quote:
Originally Posted by car-go View Post
Better still, as shown in Slumdog Millionaire - put four jacks under any car (one shown was a merc), remove the expensive alloy wheels and tyres, and you have nowhere to go but a lot to spend
By the way, iCATS is not tamper-proof. There are preset substitute ECUs available which can be switched easily. The people who sell can themselves come and do it for the culprit.
ha ha ayeah and then all the time we be with our car would be to take out tyres and alloys and replace them
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