Is iCATS really tamper proof? - Team-BHP

sathya_nars · 3rd July 2007, 11:03

We all know that MUL has introduced iCATS in its cars. Everyone would agree that it is very good technology that prevents theft, easy to track even if the car is stolen, etc.

Insurance rebate is also applicable for cars with iCATS.

Having said all these, Does it really work 100% per design? Can't anyone tamper with it at all?

Generally computer aided systems are always susceptible to attack, why won't iCATS too?

I don't deny the fact that it must work 70-80% of times, but how do we ensure that this works 100% always for us?

What would be various ways of ensuring safety?

Just wanted to kick off discussions related to this, throw your opinion.

navdeep · 3rd July 2007, 11:05

There is nothing fool proof. Its just makes the *job* difficult for the thief.

nitrous · 3rd July 2007, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by navdeep

There is nothing fool proof. Its just makes the *job* difficult for the thief.

Just a general comment,heh?

Logically speaking,If someone can manage to get inside/under the car, change the ECU with an appropriate ECU, they can drive the car away.
But, this is way too complicated.

navdeep · 3rd July 2007, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

But, this is way too complicated.

too complicated.. to be stolen ??

nitrous · 3rd July 2007, 11:38

Yes navdeep, the engine's ECU has to be changed to drive the car off without the "chipped key".

Nimz · 3rd July 2007, 11:41

Difficult for the thief but what about the owner. Would the immobiliser kick in when not needed? Are these ICATS / Immobilisers reliable and trouble free from the users perspective?

Nimz

rahul_intlad · 3rd July 2007, 11:43

Actually just like some mobile company had a steal it and show us competition ,maruti too seems to be running this in a few malls. If you manage to do so you can walk away with the car and win a few other goodies if I am not mistaken.Don't know if the thing is going on still.

nitrous · 3rd July 2007, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahul

Actually just like some mobile company had a steal it and show us competition ,maruti too seems to be running this in a few malls. If you manage to do so you can walk away with the car and win a few other goodies if I am not mistaken.Don't know if the thing is going on still.

Easy.
Source the ECU of the car, remove the icats ECU and plug the ECU that u've got and if u can manage to start the car without a key, u can drive it away.
PS: Me,v1p3r, mcl and a few poor kids are strapped for cash.So, direct us to the contest,s'il vous plait!

rahul_intlad · 3rd July 2007, 12:06

Will get back when i hear of it again.My fault should have posted this on team-bhp earlier sorry guys.

Karandeep81 · 3rd July 2007, 12:17

[quote=Nimz;487525]Difficult for the thief but what about the owner. Would the immobiliser kick in when not needed? Are these ICATS / Immobilisers reliable and trouble free from the users perspective?

the main aim of the immobiliser is to immobilise the engine, when operated with a different set code aka the chipped key. so according to me it kicking in when not needed wont be the case.
nothing on earth is trouble free .. just keep checking that the red bulb keeps flashing

nitrous · 3rd July 2007, 12:38

If an uninformed owner, duplicates the key at local store...it will definitely be immobilised.

risga · 3rd July 2007, 15:06

If credit cards can be cloned; mobile SIM cards can be cloned; DVDs with copyright technology can be copied; surely iCATS is not impossible.

Surely, some tech savvy thieves will be able to crack the encryption. If it were 100% safe, Maruti would offer FREE theft insurance.

Nimz · 3rd July 2007, 15:10

[quote=Karandeep81;487588
the main aim of the immobiliser is to immobilise the engine, when operated with a different set code aka the chipped key. so according to me it kicking in when not needed wont be the case.
nothing on earth is trouble free .. just keep checking that the red bulb keeps flashing[/quote]

Was worried as not many people on this forum seem to have immobilisers and recommend basic remote locking systems over ones with immobilisers so thought maybe there were some drawbacks to it whcih outweighed the benefits.

Nimz

AUTO_CRAZY · 7th July 2007, 01:12

The car can be stollen .............it is not 100% theft proof. Maruti has marheting the concept of Immobilizer but it is already available in Hondas and Toyota s . In Delhi and Mumbai and Bangalore there has been reports of theft os these cars.

dinar · 7th July 2007, 11:26

Most of the codded key systems work on RFID setup, so if one has an RFID reader/writer , then the key can be scanned for the embedded code and you have the immobilizer code to the car.
I don't know if the system in Marutis work on RFID, if so one has to be careful not to keep the keys in places where there is high energy electromagnetic radiation, eg: micro wave ovens, t.v., fm transmitters with high range, etc. these systems are capable of high energy output and can fry the chip inside the key.
One has to be careful with mobiles too, Maruti must have thought of this but one can not be careful enough when the replacement costs Rs 700/-.

3rd July 2007, 11:03	#1 (permalink)
sathya_nars BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 568 View My Garage	Is iCATS really tamper proof? We all know that MUL has introduced iCATS in its cars. Everyone would agree that it is very good technology that prevents theft, easy to track even if the car is stolen, etc. Insurance rebate is also applicable for cars with iCATS. Having said all these, Does it really work 100% per design? Can't anyone tamper with it at all? Generally computer aided systems are always susceptible to attack, why won't iCATS too? I don't deny the fact that it must work 70-80% of times, but how do we ensure that this works 100% always for us? What would be various ways of ensuring safety? Just wanted to kick off discussions related to this, throw your opinion.

3rd July 2007, 11:05	#2 (permalink)
navdeep BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SomeWhere in India.. Posts: 872	There is nothing fool proof. Its just makes the job difficult for the thief. __________________ eXpect the uneXpected \| Diesel For Men

3rd July 2007, 11:38	#5 (permalink)
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Motorcity Madras Posts: 4,043 View My Garage	Yes navdeep, the engine's ECU has to be changed to drive the car off without the "chipped key". __________________ Maruti - Everyone comes home with rattles!

3rd July 2007, 12:38	#11 (permalink)
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Motorcity Madras Posts: 4,043 View My Garage	If an uninformed owner, duplicates the key at local store...it will definitely be immobilised. __________________ Maruti - Everyone comes home with rattles!

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3rd July 2007, 11:41	#6 (permalink)
Nimz BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 362 View My Garage	Difficult for the thief but what about the owner. Would the immobiliser kick in when not needed? Are these ICATS / Immobilisers reliable and trouble free from the users perspective? Nimz

3rd July 2007, 11:43	#7 (permalink)
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,582	Actually just like some mobile company had a steal it and show us competition ,maruti too seems to be running this in a few malls. If you manage to do so you can walk away with the car and win a few other goodies if I am not mistaken.Don't know if the thing is going on still.

3rd July 2007, 12:06	#9 (permalink)
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,582	Will get back when i hear of it again.My fault should have posted this on team-bhp earlier sorry guys.

3rd July 2007, 12:17	#10 (permalink)
Karandeep81 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK/Ahmedabad Posts: 179	[quote=Nimz;487525]Difficult for the thief but what about the owner. Would the immobiliser kick in when not needed? Are these ICATS / Immobilisers reliable and trouble free from the users perspective? the main aim of the immobiliser is to immobilise the engine, when operated with a different set code aka the chipped key. so according to me it kicking in when not needed wont be the case. nothing on earth is trouble free .. just keep checking that the red bulb keeps flashing

3rd July 2007, 15:06	#12 (permalink)
risga BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 127	If credit cards can be cloned; mobile SIM cards can be cloned; DVDs with copyright technology can be copied; surely iCATS is not impossible. Surely, some tech savvy thieves will be able to crack the encryption. If it were 100% safe, Maruti would offer FREE theft insurance.

3rd July 2007, 15:10	#13 (permalink)
Nimz BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 362 View My Garage	[quote=Karandeep81;487588 the main aim of the immobiliser is to immobilise the engine, when operated with a different set code aka the chipped key. so according to me it kicking in when not needed wont be the case. nothing on earth is trouble free .. just keep checking that the red bulb keeps flashing[/quote] Was worried as not many people on this forum seem to have immobilisers and recommend basic remote locking systems over ones with immobilisers so thought maybe there were some drawbacks to it whcih outweighed the benefits. Nimz

7th July 2007, 01:12	#14 (permalink)
AUTO_CRAZY Newbie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 39	The car can be stollen .............it is not 100% theft proof. Maruti has marheting the concept of Immobilizer but it is already available in Hondas and Toyota s . In Delhi and Mumbai and Bangalore there has been reports of theft os these cars.

7th July 2007, 11:26	#15 (permalink)
dinar BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 430	Most of the codded key systems work on RFID setup, so if one has an RFID reader/writer , then the key can be scanned for the embedded code and you have the immobilizer code to the car. I don't know if the system in Marutis work on RFID, if so one has to be careful not to keep the keys in places where there is high energy electromagnetic radiation, eg: micro wave ovens, t.v., fm transmitters with high range, etc. these systems are capable of high energy output and can fry the chip inside the key. One has to be careful with mobiles too, Maruti must have thought of this but one can not be careful enough when the replacement costs Rs 700/-.