Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th July 2007, 14:55   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
typeOnegative's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vikhroli, Mumbai, India
Posts: 1,502
Thanked: 20 Times
Default Hyundai quality issues

The following news article caught my eye, especially after the numerous comments/allusions about/to Hyundai's falling quality. Case in point Sam's woes with his Verna. Thought this would be interesting to share.

Full story here

Quality issues drive Hyundai to Korea

At a time when global auto makers are scrambling to set up operations in India, Hyundai Motor India Ltd, the country’s third largest car maker, says it has been forced to bring in more South Korean suppliers to replace some local vendors in order to arrest falling “global quality” standards here.

The maker of the popular Santro car and a subsidiary of Korean car maker Hyundai Motor Co., Hyundai India started with 17 Korean vendors when it set up its first plant here in 1996. However, it has brought in 23 more suppliers from Korea for reasons of quality, cost and new technologies, said company officials.
“I cannot give you the names, but some of the component makers do not match international quality standards,” said Heung Soo Lheem, managing director and chief executive officer of Hyundai India, in a recent interview with Mint. “We had no other choice (to replace India vendors with Korean ones). We had so, so many... discussions with them to improve the quality, they did not show any willingness.” Details of vendors replaced and the parts they manufactured were not disclosed by Hyundai India.
It is unclear if this is a relatively new problem or whether the problem is unique to just Hyundai’s domestic suppliers, but comes even as the car giant is scaling its production operations in India.
typeOnegative is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2007, 15:15   #2
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default

Other Car makers also do the same. Most of the failures on my indica have been non Tata components. Recently Tata decided to get all Power steering systems from China instead of local vendor due to poor quality here.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2007, 15:17   #3
Team-BHP Support
 
theMAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,034
Thanked: 1,470 Times
Default

At face-value, this move makes sense. But I wonder if there's 2 sides to the coin here as well.
theMAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2007, 17:31   #4
BHPian
 
gopinathann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 765
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

I also heard that the Santros built for the past 1 year have poor build quality and having lot of complaints. The quality has gone down.
gopinathann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 10:25   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,652
Thanked: 244 Times
Default

this is a basic problem in india, to reduce cost indian manufacturers reduce quality, whereas china, taiwan & malaysia can give you better quality at those reduced prices also.

Its all about your attitude and quality consciousness.
dadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 10:55   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default

This is plain and simple BS from Hyundai. Everytime I start liking their cars they come out with nonsense like this and lose all respect from a lot of car buyers. I wonder why Indian vendors were able to provide excellent quality to Hyundai so far. What has suddenly happened that Indian vendors are not able to match international standards? There is more to this and we shouldn't take Hyundai at face value on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
this is a basic problem in india, to reduce cost indian manufacturers reduce quality, whereas china, taiwan & malaysia can give you better quality at those reduced prices also.

Its all about your attitude and quality consciousness.
We need to have more confidence in our ablilites. When other and BETTER car makers like Honda, Toyota, Suzuki, Ford are using the same Indian vendors and giving quality equal to global standards, I wonder whats so different and better about Hyundai quality that Indian vendors aren't able to match? Many major automotive companies are sourcing parts from India for their global cars and Hyundai's trying to serve us with this nonsense.
amit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 11:01   #7
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
This is plain and simple BS from Hyundai. Everytime I start liking their cars they come out with nonsense like this and lose all respect from a lot of car buyers. I wonder why Indian vendors were able to provide excellent quality to Hyundai so far. What has suddenly happened that Indian vendors are not able to match international standards? There is more to this and we shouldn't take Hyundai at face value on this.
Huh? Even Tata has stopped many Indian vendors and is sourcing parts from china. Since then the niggling problems have reduced. New indica's are much more problem free.
My own indica has had part failures related to Lucas parts, none of the Tata parts failed.


Quote:
We need to have more confidence in our ablilites. When other and BETTER car makers like Honda, Toyota, Suzuki, Ford are using the same Indian vendors and giving quality equal to global standards, I wonder whats so different and better about Hyundai quality that Indian vendors aren't able to match? Many major automotive companies are sourcing parts from India for their global cars and Hyundai's trying to serve us with this nonsense.
Umm I don't think so. Many parts in those cars are not from Indian vendors. As for Hyundai they are making india a small car export hub, so they have to meet European standards. There are good and bad part suppliers everywhere, and it seems Hyundai and Tata got associated by the wrong guys.

One example of this is the Maruti 800.
We owned a 1988 model, one of the first new design Maruti's. Everything was top notch and original suzuki. Somewhere in the 1990s many parts were sourced from India, and you had these white indicator light M800s all over after one rain. The indicator lamp orange color and the brake light red color used to fade after rains. So you can imagine the quality control which is done here.
If there is no competition, most products made over here would be substandard. More competition is better, it would force the vendors here to up their quality. This is true for any country.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 11:17   #8
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Scottsdale
Posts: 680
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Tsk, a lot has changed since 1990.

Quote:
The Indian automobile components industry has come a long way since the country’s economic liberalisation which opened up the sector in the early 1990s. From a quiet supplier of low-value components to the domestic aftermarket, the industry has transformed itself into a global hub for sourcing a range of high-value and critical automobile components. The industry is the darling of many global auto makers such as GM, Toyota, Ford, Volkswagen, etc., who source auto components worth millions from India. In fact, the industry is one of the front runners for grabbing the auto components outsourcing market estimated to be worth US$700 billion by 2015. However, the journey is not smooth. The industry accounts for only 0.4% of the US$1.2 trillion global components industry as against competitors like China (1.2%) and Mexico (5.9%). It is up against challenges such as lack of good infrastructure, increasing input costs, etc. which could impede its growth.
Not only that, many Indian companies are now OEM suppliers for major auto manufacturers. The following a testament for improving quality standards of Indian auto component makers

Deming Award Winners list (1998-2005)
Deming Application Prize
Year
Sundaram-Clayaton Ltd, Brakes Division (India)
1998
Sundaram Brake Linings Ltd.
2001
TVS Motor Company Ltd.
2002
Brakes India Ltd., Foundry Division
2003
Mahindra and Mahindra Ltd., Farm Equipment Sector
2003
Rane Brake Linings Ltd.
2003
Sona Koyo Steering Systems Ltd.
2003
Lucas-TVS Limited
2004
Krishna Maruti Limited, Seat Division
2005
Rane Engine Valves Limited
2005
Rane TRW Steering Systems Limited, Steering Gear Division
2005
Quality Control Award For Operations Business Units
Hi-Tech Carbon GMPD
2002
Japan Quality Medal
Sundaram-Clayton Ltd., Brakes Division
2002


Ofcourse, this doesn't mean that all companies make quality products but then there are good companies and there are bad companies. Probably Hyundai went with the bad companies to save a buck or two. Also, the quality of components depends, to an extent, on the auto manufacturers specifications. They lay the guidelines and specify standards and they usually reserve the right to reject products.
Mayavi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 11:21   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
This is plain and simple BS from Hyundai.
I disagree - for reasons stated below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
We need to have more confidence in our ablilites.
I agree, but we need to ensure that others have confidence in our abilities too. Why would a manufacturer want to increase his cost base by importing stuff if the same is available here for lower prices - as long as they are reliable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
When other and BETTER car makers like Honda, Toyota, Suzuki, Ford are using the same Indian vendors and giving quality equal to global standards, I wonder whats so different and better about Hyundai quality that Indian vendors aren't able to match? Many major automotive companies are sourcing parts from India for their global cars and Hyundai's trying to serve us with this nonsense.
Things change - the rather narrow-minded approach that some of our business community have towards profits ensures that they produce good stuff just to get the business, and quality levels generally dwindle thereafter.

When we have home-based manufacturers like Tata replacing local component makers with Chinese and Korean ones, why blame Hyundai?

We keep talking about global players coming to India for components - have we seen the EXTENT of the chinese component market? Come to any trade shown and you'll be blown away by the sheer size and number of Chinese manufacturers and the variety of their components as well as their incredibly low cost.

How many component suppliers do we have that have been CONSISTENTLY supplying to one manufacturer for several years? You'll probably be able count them on a hand or two.

Why would anyone want to source from India if that is the case? Patriotism is good, but it has to be backed by substance.

Last edited by Steeroid : 10th July 2007 at 11:30.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 11:29   #10
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default

Don't think much has changed.
All the Lucas TVS electrical parts in my indica have failed atleast once, which includes the Alternator, the starter motor.
The Power steering pump bearings have failed
the AC compressor bearings have failed
The wheel bearings need to be changed every 15000kms, while the ones on our santro lasted 60K(Very old santro).
Ditto for getz, (one of the first pieces with mostly Korean parts)

Go through the threads, you will find so many people with OEM batteries failing after 1 year.
I presume the manufacturers tell the OEM vendors to make substandard parts?
The quality may have improved, but indian products whether car manufacturers or OEM suppliers are still sub par.
If that was not the case, why do we way Honda and Toyota are world class and rate them higher than Tata?
The reason is simple, Tata cars are not as reliable as Honda/Toyota and Suzuki and part of the blame is to rest with the OEM suppliers.


I would say rather than Blaming Hyundai for making excuses, which I think they are not, lets look at the ground realities. Even the role model of Indian Automobile industry, the poster child. Tata Motors ltd. has gone to china
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...bhai-bhai.html (Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai?)

When I posted that thread, nobody criticized Tata. But when Hyundai has done the same thing, instead of discussing the Abyssimal quality which plagues many OEM component suppliers, it turns into a Hyundai Bashing thread.

The Funniest thing is Honda/Toyota Example! Honda City is not even 100% localized?? And its not that Hyundai is going to import cars from Korea. And they are not going to import all parts from Korea, only some. They will source problem components from abroad.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 11:57   #11
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Other Car makers also do the same. Most of the failures on my indica have been non Tata components. Recently Tata decided to get all Power steering systems from China instead of local vendor due to poor quality here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The Power steering pump bearings have failed
Is the PS supplier Rane? Well if it is then Rane has some serious quality problems in their operation.

Recently i heard about Rane engine valves failing in a new diesel engine that was undergoing tests at the factory.
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 12:02   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Is the PS supplier Rane? Well if it is then Rane has some serious quality problems in their operation.

Recently i heard about Rane engine valves failing in a new diesel engine that was undergoing tests at the factory.
I believe new PS unit for Dicor is Chinese. Intercooler hoses made in India were also replaced by Korean or Chinese ones after our Desi hoses didnt hold up in a few cars initially.

I really look forward to the day they replace the a/c unit with a Chinese or Korean one. Someone mentioned that the export units have Aussie a/c units.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 12:19   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,430
Thanked: 32 Times
Default

I see nothing wrong in Hyundai going to Korea if the quality of components supplied by Koreans is better than what you get here. As mentioned by someone, the general tendency by many manufacturers is to supply good parts initially when they want to do business, but once their business is established and they turn towards making profits, they do not provide the same quality as before. I have experienced this tendency at many places. I am not surprised by Hyundai's reaction. After all, we are paying through our nose to buy a car and we better get a good quality product, even if it means that we are paying extra for that.
deepakhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 12:29   #14
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: KL
Posts: 4,680
Thanked: 3,508 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I believe new PS unit for Dicor is Chinese. Intercooler hoses made in India were also replaced by Korean or Chinese ones after our Desi hoses didnt hold up in a few cars initially.
Pardon me i didn't make it clear the first time
I meant to ask whether the old PS units were supplied by Rane.
Sankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2007, 13:08   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,652
Thanked: 244 Times
Default

let me also add that the cost for these components to mfg might even be lesser or equivalent as they import in bulk.

btw, even if its higher, the replacement and goodwill costs them much more, specifically when they are exporting these cars to other countries.
dadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto sidindica Technical Stuff 528 26th July 2017 11:08
No hope for traffic sense? Study says quality of driving depends upon quality of government! tsk1979 Street Experiences 14 23rd April 2016 16:18
Problems with a new Polo GT TSI. Quality Issues? Tassem Technical Stuff 14 25th September 2013 08:44
Hyundai to shift focus towards quality instead of quantity sarthakgupta The Indian Car Scene 35 10th September 2013 17:27
Why No quality SUVs from Hyundai, Suzuki etc? agbenny The Indian Car Scene 10 3rd March 2008 11:21


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:19.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks