Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th October 2008, 09:28   #136
Senior - BHPian
 
SkyWalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,531
Thanked: 122 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanwal View Post
Officially the date is between sept-dec
this is the kind of launch date that shows incapability. Say Sep or Dec or any month in between. If someone calls for a such a large time frame its only because they are so unsure about themselves!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
but I would not gauge what FIAT is about to do by what they have done in the past.
Actually, we are talking about what they are doing now

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Fiat's game is against itself
Hmm... as in "when i am in a hole, how can i dig deeper"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
The Grande Punto went on sale in Europe in 2005.
Eggjjjactly. Honda bought their new care to India in 3 months. FIAT cant do it in 3 years!
SkyWalker is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 11:30   #137
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default

Quote:
Amit

Perhaps you might want to revisit your signature in the light of this very valid comment?
I don't take mine or anyone else's signatures seriously. I suggest you don't either. I am sure you know that I also bought a SX4 preferring not to wait for the Linea. Tomorrow, if I have to choose between a G3HC and Linea 1.4 77bhp Petrol, I would pick the G3HC despite it coming with fewer features at a higher price.

The G3HC at almost 10 lacs doesn't have fog lamps and alloys, forget ACC. To add to that, Honda threatens customers with withdrawing warranty if the tyres and wheels are changed. If the Linea top end does the same, would we be as forgiving?

Quote:
I would like to imagine a scenario where the Linea was launched not on 4th Sep 08 but say 4th Jan 08.
Recall, since when are we anticipating that car.
Fiat has said from a very long time that Linea would be out towards the end of 2008. If, despite that, some people are waiting for the car since 4th Jan 08 then you can't blame Fiat for that can you?

Quote:
The Game I was referring to was that Fiat needed to play to build reputation back.
It's quite clear that even Honda has done a soft launch of the G3HC. In another thread there was talk of Fiat launching the Linea on 4th sept and deliveries starting in Oct/Nov. I am sure even you are aware of the hell that broke loose on that thread. My question is if we can accept Honda doing a soft launch of the G3HC and even Tata doing a soft launch of the Indica Vista why can't we accept the same being done by Fiat? Or Ford and GM?

Quote:
The Grande Punto went on sale in Europe in 2005.
Quote:
Eggjjjactly. Honda bought their new care to India in 3 months. FIAT cant do it in 3 years!
Fiat's new plant in Ranjangaon is just being completed now. Unlike a Honda or Hyundai or Maruti, Fiat was not in a position, for reasons all of us are well aware of, to launch the car in India right after it's international launch. Apart from a new plant they also had to set right their dealership and service set up. We flame Fiat for piggy backing on Tata's dealership but would you agree to put up a Fiat dealership even today?

I don't know what the deal is at the Ranjangaon but from what we know the Indica Vista is being produced there and I don't see too many Vista's out on the roads. Maybe the plant is yet to go full steam ahead. Maybe there are some glitches that are still being sorted out.

Saying things like the game is over for x company is useless in my opinion. New cars are going to get launched all the time and the presence of the Great G3HC notwithstanding, there are going to be buyers out there for all kinds of cars. Sure the G3HC is going to rule the Indian C segment forever but that doesn't mean we should not expect other companies to launch their cars. If it wasn't for the SX4, Verna, Fiesta we would still be paying almost a million rs for the OHC. It's like saying Ford shouldn't bother launching their Focus now since the Civic is already here and the game is up for them.

Yes, it's high time Fiat gave us a date of the launch. That I agree. Saying the launch will happen between Sept to Dec is ridiculous. Even if they say, we will launch the car on November 14 and deliveries will start from December 1, it will be good enough for their reputation.

Last edited by amit : 11th October 2008 at 11:38.
amit is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 11:36   #138
Senior - BHPian
 
1100D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,179
Thanked: 2,360 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
The Grande Punto went on sale in Europe in 2005. Perhaps Fiat are waiting to replace it with a newer model in Europe, at which point they will ship all the used dies and jigs to India and finally start making it here.
I think I heard they were making few changes to duck into the sub 4m length category.
1100D is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 11:47   #139
Team-BHP Support
 
Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 7,402
Thanked: 4,679 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
It's quite clear that even Honda has done a soft launch of the G3HC. In another thread there was talk of Fiat launching the Linea on 4th sept and deliveries starting in Oct/Nov. I am sure even you are aware of the hell that broke loose on that thread. My question is if we can accept Honda doing a soft launch of the G3HC and even Tata doing a soft launch of the Indica Vista why can't we accept the same being done by Fiat? Or Ford and GM?
Amit, the two soft launches were as different as cheese and chalk. G3HC was a soft launch but the Linea was a secret launch inside an embassy(?). Well technically, its not even Indian territory. We (or at least I) don't even know whether it actually happened or not.

Also, some companies can afford to play games on their terms becuse they have built a reputation for themselves in the market. Fiat has not and hence can't afford to do that. It has to be open and truthful to the public. Like you said in another thread, let them come up with saying that we are ready to launch but can't do so immediately coz of so and so reason.
Eddy is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 11:52   #140
BHPian
 
sudipt123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 171
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
The Grande Punto went on sale in Europe in 2005. Perhaps Fiat are waiting to replace it with a newer model in Europe, at which point they will ship all the used dies and jigs to India and finally start making it here.
AFAIK, The series 2 of Grande Punto already made it's entry in the U.K. in June this year. Some revisions in specifications, Blue n me standard in all version on the GP. Price revisions etc.
sudipt123 is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 12:25   #141
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Also, some companies can afford to play games on their terms becuse they have built a reputation for themselves in the market. Fiat has not and hence can't afford to do that.
I agree. And that's why Fiat didn't do a soft launch and I am glad they didn't because if they did people would say that there are some problems with their cars and so they are delaying the deliveries to sort out the issues.

Quote:
It has to be open and truthful to the public. Like you said in another thread, let them come up with saying that we are ready to launch but can't do so immediately coz of so and so reason.
If only they were smart enough to understand that! I, honestly, believe that no one is going to hold it against them if they say come out and give the real reason for the delay. Even if they want to lie about it, at least come up with a good reason instead of the idiotic one about too many launches confusing the buyers!
amit is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 12:32   #142
Senior - BHPian
 
SkyWalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,531
Thanked: 122 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
The G3HC at almost 10 lacs doesn't have fog lamps and alloys, forget ACC. To add to that, Honda threatens customers with withdrawing warranty if the tyres and wheels are changed. If the Linea top end does the same, would we be as forgiving?
Whether you like it or not, Amit, that's the way of the world. Honda built a reputation here, they had a plan and they backed it up with execution. Can Timex charge as much as Tag Heuer if they come up with the same quality F1 Chrono?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
My question is if we can accept Honda doing a soft launch of the G3HC and even Tata doing a soft launch of the Indica Vista why can't we accept the same being done by Fiat? Or Ford and GM?
All can. And I would love if they did. But they aren't doing that either, are they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
Saying things like the game is over for x company is useless in my opinion.
This I Agree. However you should also note that had they launched in Sep, they would have had a 3-4 month lead time in the market. Its little things like this that makes a big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
Yes, it's high time Fiat gave us a date of the launch. That I agree. Saying the launch will happen between Sept to Dec is ridiculous. Even if they say, we will launch the car on November 14 and deliveries will start from December 1, it will be good enough for their reputation.
I am 100% with you on this. They can at least look for some redemption by doing this.

I think i have discussed this car enough. I will wait for (if there is one) the launch before i get into the FIAT/Linea threads again. Happy discussions
SkyWalker is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 12:50   #143
Senior - BHPian
 
karanraheja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 1,915
Thanked: 233 Times
Default

Amit you have made some valid points here. I dont think people are opposing about the soft launch of Linea. Its just they were happy doing it in the Italian embassy. First of all did it really happen?? If Fiat had launched the Linea ahead of New City there would nt have been so much bashing. Its just that most of the people who were waiting for Linea would atleast feel confident that Fiat was keen to capitalise the Festive sales and also give some actual threat to City( Whenever its launched it surely is a threat to City). But i think the launch detail of Sept- Dec is ridiculous , Honda launched their City ahead of its Diwali launch. Obviously the wait period is there. But still a car buyer feels more confident when the company atleast makes an attempt to launch it ahead of the competition . Your comments are welcome!
karanraheja is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 13:18   #144
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Sometimes I feel that we will go mad asking Fiat to launch cars in faster and efficient fashion.
I agree that company has to be honest, but then they must have some reason for the delay. The parent company is not at all in bad shape it was some years earlier. Now they are busy declaring that their Ranjangoan facility will a global hub ,etc, but the cars are yet to hit the roads.

The fact that Fiat is not understanding is that a delay in launch seriously indicates the sincerity of car manufacturer towards a specific market. I would analyze like this " Fiat is delaying launch of cars even though they are not having A.S & S ( as now Tata handles these ) to worry about. Now if this is the attitude in bringing in the cars, what will be attitude in servicing the cars or for providing spare parts ( wear and tear is bound to happen ) ? "

Grande Punto was shown to public in 2005 Frankfurt motor show and it hit the street late in 2005. Now what was Fiat doing for all these years ?

The pricing is from the past. Now the pricing will be atleast 5.5-5.7 for Grande Punto and 7-7.5 for Linea.

We are discussing Fiat issues and they surely have no end. And the cars are yet to reach Indian roads.
aaggoswami is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 13:40   #145
Senior - BHPian
 
finneyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,619
Thanked: 160 Times
Default

Firstly, the soft launch of Fiat Linea never happenend!
Though it was scheduled for 04-Sep, it was postponed due to some unknown reasons!
finneyp is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 14:29   #146
Senior - BHPian
 
JayD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cochin! At last
Posts: 3,195
Thanked: 1,996 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
No offense mate [and I agree with your segment contendor statements here]. But it must be said that nothing is more 'ridiculous' here than Fiat's strategies for India..

And I'm not a Fiat hater. I have given up waiting desperately for the GP.
What is even more 'ridiculous' is the number of 'Fiat is going to......' threads on this forum!!! Wake UP Guys, these guys aint gonna do anything!!! Some guys never get it do they, and they still open more threads saying 'Fiat is surely going to.....Blah!!!'

I'm planning to start a thread titled 'Fiat India has done.... blah blah blah' And i'm pretty sure that apart from some people form the vintage section who will fill it up till 1972 when they stopped the 1100D, there wont be anything significant in there!!! Atleast the fiat fanboys will leave the hondas and the hyundais alone there!!
JayD is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 14:43   #147
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: pune
Posts: 2,088
Thanked: 48 Times
Default

About Linea buyers converting to ANHC, I know at least 2 buyers, who have bought their old Honda Cities over ANHC. Both had same reason:

1) They were not willing to wait till Jan/Feb for delivery.
2) They did not want to pay 1.5L extra for City which is supposed to be less FE due to extra power.

Dealer told them that 100 bhp NHC Vtec gives around 12-14 kmpl on highway and new will be even lesser. I also suspect that the dealer is trying to get rid of NHC stock before ANHC gets in market.
RX135 is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 15:30   #148
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
The fact that Fiat is not understanding is that a delay in launch seriously indicates the sincerity of car manufacturer towards a specific market. I would analyze like this " Fiat is delaying launch of cars even though they are not having A.S & S ( as now Tata handles these ) to worry about. Now if this is the attitude in bringing in the cars, what will be attitude in servicing the cars or for providing spare parts ( wear and tear is bound to happen ) ? "
Majority of the people would intepret it as the delay is happening because there is some quality problem in the cars and the company is sorting it out before starting deliveries. That's unless the company happens to be a Japanese one.

Quote:
Grande Punto was shown to public in 2005 Frankfurt motor show and it hit the street late in 2005. Now what was Fiat doing for all these years ?
Assuming you meant that in the Indian context and the year is 2008, Fiat was busy in finalising the deal with Tata Motors, then they sold off their Mumbai plant and went about building their new plant in Ranjangaon from scratch. Besides that they also launched the Palio Stile and started production of the Multijet engine in India.
amit is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 17:19   #149
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 293
Thanked: 43 Times
Default

I got a reply from the CEO corner thing from Fiat - tells me that the Grande Punto will be launched early next year. Wow! I just scooped up a story!

Maybe I should reply with a face like this -
reppy is offline  
Old 11th October 2008, 17:39   #150
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
, then they sold off their Mumbai plant and went about building their new plant in Ranjangaon from scratch.
This plant has been in the works for a few years now - they havent built it from scratch recently. The plant went live in April 2007 (April 3) and was "under construction" for several years before that.

I hope they have serious plans for this plant because its been a while since it has been running - Rs.2,500 crore isnt a small investment by any stretch of imagination.

In contrast, Hyundai got their first plant in Chennai up and running (from scratch, mind you) in a year and were churning out Santros within 13 months of ground-breaking. They have added 2 more plants there which were planned out AFTER Fiat started work on Ranjangaon, and they're busy exporting cars to the extent that their exports are higher than the production/sales in the Indian market.
Steeroid is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grande Punto Facelift: From baby Maserati to Punto Evo EDIT: Punto 'My Life' on pg.7 sushanthr77 The International Automotive Scene 167 25th November 2011 12:02
Pete's for Linea and Grande Punto frankmehta Modifications & Accessories 151 20th September 2011 08:39
Fiat Grande Punto / Linea tuning guide? CPH Technical Stuff 15 25th March 2010 15:52
Fiat to delay launch of Linea and Grande Punto ravi@64bhp The Indian Car Scene 199 24th November 2008 19:45
Everybody Needs Somebody (Linea, Grande Punto, Bravo, 500) SumitBahl The Indian Car Scene 21 17th August 2008 13:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:27.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks