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Old 17th January 2009, 01:16   #211
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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Linea is definitely welcome as more competition should always be. Puts pressure on the big cats to give more to the customer (remember the 800/Dzire/... waiting lists, margin money, piddly interest on deposits or the BSNL waiting lists till the early 2000s).
+1 to that. My dad was about 15000 (?) on the 800 lottery. It took almost 2 years for his turn to come for buying the car. There were people on 50000 and above :-( Luckily, he managed to buy the 'new' 1986 800 model (only tyres and glass made in India, rest from Japan), and it served us over 17years before we sold it off!
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Old 17th January 2009, 11:47   #212
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@Cruiser, if a person is a genuine enthusiast - i doubt if they will buy the Linea. While the engine's may be adequate, they will definitely not fit an auto enthusiast.

I guess Linea will apply more to the janta, who wants lot of features, a big sedan & fuel efficiency at a decent performance and good VFM
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Old 17th January 2009, 11:55   #213
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I guess Linea will apply more to the janta, who wants lot of features, a big sedan & fuel efficiency at a decent performance and good VFM
Fiat is lucky that Honda took the sportier and lesser practical way with their all new city. The previous Honda city fans will prefer the linea now.
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Old 18th January 2009, 08:19   #214
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More than 95% of the C/C+ car buyers would be looking for decent performance (in city), luxurious feel inside, host of features and an overall classy feel to the car, something that exudes luxury (at least from the outside). Linea scores handsomely in all these depts.

The major crib going around is the underpowered engine, but how many C/C+ segment buyers need a 120 bhp diesel beast under the hood ? My guess is it would be 1 in10, so FIAT has decided to go with the majority 9. Most of the octavia's out there are powered by a 90 bhp TDI engine, not many complain. Skoda had to stop production of their bhp monster vRS due to lack of sales, these are all indicators as the type price-sensitive fuel-economy conscious market we have in this country.

For the car manufacturer its what ultimately brings him business, head over heart !
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Old 18th January 2009, 09:37   #215
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Though length is criteria for authorities, the correct parameter is the engine size.
Standard convention for petrol cars is displacement:

Segment D (eg: Civic, Corolla): 1.8L capacity (Budget: 10L~13L)
Segment C (eg: City, Fiesta, Verna, Logan 1.6): 1.5L~1.6L capacity (Budget: 6L~9L)
Segment C- (eg: Indigo, Dzire, Ikon, Logan 1.4): 1.3~1.4L capacity (Budget: 5L~7L)

So Linea falls into C- segment, since it is less than 1.4L cc. And its price is bit higher for C- segment. I think Fiat is running a risk here, by offering C- segment car at prices higher than that segment.

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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Considering the size and specs, Linea more or less should compete with Civic, Corolla, Octavia, and Optra in space; but with lower segment in price.
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Old 18th January 2009, 10:27   #216
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I would disagree with that. VW makes 1.4L engines that give out 170bhp. How will you classify the Jetta as a C-segment car?

The correct parameter for you is engine size however the world over it's exterior dimensions.
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Old 18th January 2009, 11:06   #217
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Petrol Jetta is D segment car with 1.6L engine. That may be reason why it was not successful in the segment where 1.8L engines are norm.
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I would disagree with that. VW makes 1.4L engines that give out 170bhp. How will you classify the Jetta as a C-segment car?

Last edited by diabloo : 18th January 2009 at 11:08.
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Old 18th January 2009, 12:09   #218
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Petrol Jetta is D segment car with 1.6L engine. That may be reason why it was not successful in the segment where 1.8L engines are norm.
I am not talking about the 1.6L sold in India. I'm saying going by your logic the VW sold abroad with the 1.4TSI engine should be sold along with the logan everywhere around the world since it has a 1400cc engine.

That was one such example and there are many to show that the logic is flawed.
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Old 18th January 2009, 12:28   #219
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Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
I am not talking about the 1.6L sold in India. I'm saying going by your logic the VW sold abroad with the 1.4TSI engine should be sold along with the logan everywhere around the world since it has a 1400cc engine.

That was one such example and there are many to show that the logic is flawed.
Fully agreed with vid here. Car dimensions, and features/quality usually define the segments everywhere.
If size of engines were the only thing to classify cars, then all the American big cars would be in 'super-super' segment not matched by other car manufacturers. I once drove a Chevy Blazer with 4.3l engine which managed less than 200bhp !! This SUV could not do 85mph on slight inclines, and its speedo was callibrated to 100mph. At that time, most other non-American SUVs including premium ones would come with a smaller engine - but Chevy Blazer was the base SUV model category. Most Jap/Euro engines of 3l of the period, developed over 200bhp, and powered vehicles in higher segments than the Chevy. And the Blazer guzzled gasoline like few others (thankfully, petrol was <$1/gallon in US at the time)

So, engine size is not the main criteria. And even when we look at engine performance itself, what matters is the technology, bhp/kgm figures etc. Like the 1.4TSI from VW has supercharger and turbocharger, and is a marvel of technology.
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Old 18th January 2009, 23:46   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
I am not talking about the 1.6L sold in India. I'm saying going by your logic the VW sold abroad with the 1.4TSI engine should be sold along with the logan everywhere around the world since it has a 1400cc engine.

That was one such example and there are many to show that the logic is flawed.
+1 vid6639
I too agree with you, The Mazda RX8 has a 1.3L engine generates 231 PS, It's a rotary engine though. But the point here is it's not just the size of the engine which puts a car in a particular segment.
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Old 19th January 2009, 00:54   #221
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
There is something called After Sales as well. Fiat still has to prove a lot on that!
Leave alone the after sales service, Fiat is not even able to improve their quality in sales. I feel it was the worst decision to move from TVS to TATA if not better. Fate of FIAT in India is obvious
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Old 19th January 2009, 10:23   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Though length is criteria for authorities, the correct parameter is the engine size.
Standard convention for petrol cars is displacement:

Segment D (eg: Civic, Corolla): 1.8L capacity (Budget: 10L~13L)
Segment C (eg: City, Fiesta, Verna, Logan 1.6): 1.5L~1.6L capacity (Budget: 6L~9L)
Segment C- (eg: Indigo, Dzire, Ikon, Logan 1.4): 1.3~1.4L capacity (Budget: 5L~7L)

So Linea falls into C- segment, since it is less than 1.4L cc. And its price is bit higher for C- segment. I think Fiat is running a risk here, by offering C- segment car at prices higher than that segment.
By your logic, a car can change segment just by plonking a different engine? Later, if Fiat gives the 1.6L engine to Linea, it will become D (or D-) segment?
We should be happy that a Civic/Corollo competitor (in international market) is priced against City/Fiesta/Vernas.
That said, I will be surprised if Linea can outsell City. Even if it does, it will be probably for a month or two. We have seen that with SX4 before.
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Old 19th January 2009, 10:55   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Though length is criteria for authorities, the correct parameter is the engine size.
Standard convention for petrol cars is displacement:

Segment D (eg: Civic, Corolla): 1.8L capacity (Budget: 10L~13L)
Segment C (eg: City, Fiesta, Verna, Logan 1.6): 1.5L~1.6L capacity (Budget: 6L~9L)
Segment C- (eg: Indigo, Dzire, Ikon, Logan 1.4): 1.3~1.4L capacity (Budget: 5L~7L)
Dude, that's your criteria. According to widely accepted norms - the Segment of a car is decided by the (1) Size (2) Engine Capacity & Power.

You are free to refer here, how its categorized in most countries.
Compact car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 19th January 2009, 12:01   #224
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The convention in India is car buying public expect certain engine capacity for the segment - I was bringing out this aspect.

This not the first time Fiat is doing this - they launched B-segment specs car in D-segment (Fiat 500). I wonder if it even recovered the launch budget .
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Old 19th January 2009, 12:17   #225
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
The convention in India is car buying public expect certain engine capacity for the segment - I was bringing out this aspect.
Yes, diabloo is right. That is why the 1.4L Civic Hybrid didn't sell at 21 lakhs.

Still, Honda had the last laugh when they hoodwinked us by selling a 1.4L C segment car for 13 lakhs which is D segment prices.
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