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Old 19th January 2009, 12:18   #226
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
The convention in India is car buying public expect certain engine capacity for the segment - I was bringing out this aspect.

This not the first time Fiat is doing this - they launched B-segment specs car in D-segment (Fiat 500). I wonder if it even recovered the launch budget .
it would be interesting to know what part of the public you are talking about,
majority seem to think otherwise

Last edited by ms001 : 19th January 2009 at 12:19.
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Old 19th January 2009, 12:26   #227
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Hybrid is a nascent technology. Since it was CBD, it attracted 100% duty. Hence the high cost. They expected Govt of India to reduce duty for Hybrid cars (like UK has done for Reva). When Govt didn't care, they were forced sell at high costs. Anyway we must commend Honda for introducing cutting edge technology in India. Maybe they will manufacture here in future and cost is reduced.

Anyway there is nothing new in Fiat 500 technology that people will flock to buy it..
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That is why the 1.4L Civic Hybrid didn't sell at 21 lakhs.
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Old 19th January 2009, 12:44   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Since it was CBD, it attracted 100% duty.
So is the Fiat 500. The same 100% duty applies to it too.

Quote:
They expected Govt of India to reduce duty for Hybrid cars (like UK has done for Reva). When Govt didn't care, they were forced sell at high costs.
Damn the silly government! They didn't realise that it was THE Honda that was expecting customs duty reductions.

Quote:
Anyway we must commend Honda for introducing cutting edge technology in India.
Of course. Thank you Honda! What would we do without your cutting edge technology that you make avaliable for so cheap to us Indians!

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Anyway there is nothing new in Fiat 500 technology that people will flock to buy it..
Yes you are right. Only Honda knows what technology is. Thank you thank you oh Honda for showing us what technology is!
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Old 19th January 2009, 12:58   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
The convention in India is car buying public expect certain engine capacity for the segment - I was bringing out this aspect.
Nope that is not the convention at all. If that were the case people would be running to buy the Getz CRDi with 1500cc rather than the Swift VDi with 1300cc. It's exactly the opposite even when the price difference is 40K and the getz has 35bhp more and both cars have same features.
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Old 19th January 2009, 13:27   #230
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To go by the book, here are the segments in India:
A - Mini (Upto 3400 mm)
B - Compact (3400-4000 mm)
C - Mid-size (4001-4500 mm)
D - Executive (4501-4700 mm)
E - Premium (4701-5000 mm)
Luxury (> 5001 mm)

My point is though segments are divided based on length, the cars in each of these segments cluster around certain engine capacities. For instance, for Executive segment (Corolla, Civic), its around ~1800CC. Hope you see merit in my argument.

So by length Linea falls in Executive segment, and by engine its in C- segment.
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Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Nope that is not the convention at all.
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Old 19th January 2009, 13:43   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
To go by the book, here are the segments in India:
A - Mini (Upto 3400 mm)
B - Compact (3400-4000 mm)
C - Mid-size (4001-4500 mm)
D - Executive (4501-4700 mm)
E - Premium (4701-5000 mm)
Luxury (> 5001 mm)

My point is though segments are divided based on length, the cars in each of these segments cluster around certain engine capacities. For instance, for Executive segment (Corolla, Civic), its around ~1800CC. Hope you see merit in my argument.

So by length Linea falls in Executive segment, and by engine its in C- segment.
I would have expected the segments to be defined on interior volume and not overall length.
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Old 19th January 2009, 13:53   #232
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Can't you understand that harping on the same thing again and again does not make any difference? There is no classification of segments based on engine capacity. Engine capacity is no indicator of the power it develops. Linea is definitely in the Corolla/Civic/Octavia segment. Its underpowered, but that is a different thing altogether.

The first generation Honda City too came with a 1.3liter engine along with the 1.5. Now, what segment was it in?


Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
To go by the book, here are the segments in India:
A - Mini (Upto 3400 mm)
B - Compact (3400-4000 mm)
C - Mid-size (4001-4500 mm)
D - Executive (4501-4700 mm)
E - Premium (4701-5000 mm)
Luxury (> 5001 mm)

My point is though segments are divided based on length, the cars in each of these segments cluster around certain engine capacities. For instance, for Executive segment (Corolla, Civic), its around ~1800CC. Hope you see merit in my argument.

So by length Linea falls in Executive segment, and by engine its in C- segment.
 
Old 19th January 2009, 14:03   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
To go by the book, here are the segments in India:
A - Mini (Upto 3400 mm)
B - Compact (3400-4000 mm)
C - Mid-size (4001-4500 mm)
D - Executive (4501-4700 mm)
E - Premium (4701-5000 mm)
Luxury (> 5001 mm)

My point is though segments are divided based on length, the cars in each of these segments cluster around certain engine capacities. For instance, for Executive segment (Corolla, Civic), its around ~1800CC. Hope you see merit in my argument.

So by length Linea falls in Executive segment, and by engine its in C- segment.
I think you must start a new thread for the benefit of all the BHPians here,
explaning all about segment divisions and what car fall under what category That would be quite an interesting thread.I don't think this is the place to debate on that topic.
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Old 19th January 2009, 14:59   #234
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@Amit - lol.. Hilarious comments.
Well in actual IMO honda civic hybrid and Fiat 500 were way overpriced and so the failure was inevitable.
Somehow feel Fiat Bravo may see the same fate as well.
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Old 19th January 2009, 15:07   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
@Amit - lol.. Hilarious comments.
Well in actual IMO honda civic hybrid and Fiat 500 were way overpriced and so the failure was inevitable.
Somehow feel Fiat Bravo may see the same fate as well.
Maybe the success (or rather the lack of it) of the Fiat 500 is forcing Fiat to think twice before launching the Bravo.

OT: Diabloo, Guess you can now write a book on "Honda vs the Rest"
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Old 19th January 2009, 17:07   #236
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I think this thread has served its purpose. Linea has a thread of its own, so does Punto. So why are we discussing segment classifications here which is of no relevance at all.
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Old 19th January 2009, 17:10   #237
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when we were doing some research a while back - the same confusion had prevailed - on the classification of indian car segments. there is a fair amount of ambiguity as well, as some people also classify it in terms of car costs.
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Old 19th January 2009, 23:59   #238
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All my harping and still no clue? I never said there is classification based on engine capacity. Please read my posts again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
Can't you understand that harping on the same thing again and again does not make any difference? There is no classification of segments based on engine capacity.
What is the reasoning?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fountainheader View Post
OT: Diabloo, Guess you can now write a book on "Honda vs the Rest"
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Old 20th January 2009, 00:29   #239
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Forget classifications, see it this way, its either the biggest C segment car or the cheapest D-segment car, either way, it wins.

About the 500, please dont bring it here, Cinquecento is a niche product, which people familiar with the cult following the original 500 commanded, will know and appreciate. Much like the Beetle and the Mini, both of which would retail for similar prices as does the Lovely little Fiat. People who would buy it, wont buy it as a point A to Point B transportation tool.

Sometimes we have some established manufacturers playing by the dimension and cubic capacity rule, but make up for that by the bhp figure (or the lack of it) the engine that vehicle comes equipped with. Thankfully that horrible phase in the history of some of those manufacturer's is over.

Last edited by 1100D : 20th January 2009 at 00:35.
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Old 20th January 2009, 08:48   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fountainheader View Post
Maybe the success (or rather the lack of it) of the Fiat 500 is forcing Fiat to think twice before launching the Bravo.
Well, if they are planning to bring Bravo as an import, i would say they are smoking weed. 500 was a bad business decision, and this will be repeating it to ad infinitum

Now - even otherwise - markets is not yet ripe for a performance hatch. They are better off focusing their energies to GP and thinking about engine upgrades to Linea and improving the service network than launching Bravo - which will never be a volume player.

I am not saying 500/Bravo are bad products. They are fantastic cars - just that they will never make business sense in India.

Last edited by SkyWalker : 20th January 2009 at 08:49.
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