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Old 20th January 2009, 10:06   #241
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Well, if they are planning to bring Bravo as an import, i would say they are smoking weed. 500 was a bad business decision, and this will be repeating it to ad infinitum
Seriously, what FIAT have to do explicitly for 500? Only launch party and thats it. They have not invested anything for 500. People who like to grab attention will book a car which FIAT will bring from one of their factories outside. 500 was never meant Bread and Butter. It was just to say "India, we are back in business and 500 will be followed by made for India cars".
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Old 20th January 2009, 10:11   #242
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Seriously, what FIAT have to do explicitly for 500? Only launch party and thats it. They have not invested anything for 500. People who like to grab attention will book a car which FIAT will bring from one of their factories outside. 500 was never meant Bread and Butter. It was just to say "India, we are back in business and 500 will be followed by made for India cars".
Neo,
I guess everyone accepts that fact. But Fiat definitely needs to think about launching the Bravo. They'd rather spend money on Linea Engine upgrade and GP, as skywalker mentioned.
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Old 20th January 2009, 10:16   #243
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Neo,
I guess everyone accepts that fact. But Fiat definitely needs to think about launching the Bravo. They'd rather spend money on Linea Engine upgrade and GP, as skywalker mentioned.

It would be a golden day if FIAT really assembles it here. Unlike 500, Bravo should be locally assembled (May be via CKD way). Bravo for 7-9L would be a real Fabia killer. Oh is Fabia already dead??
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:14   #244
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Let us compare with 2-wheeler world. People who spend ~45K expect ~100CC bike. People who spend ~55K expect ~150CC bike. This is the point I am making.

As per dimensions, Linea is in D segment.
As per engine, it is in C- segment.
As per prices, it is in C segment.

My fear is this might put off the buyers, since Linea's engine doesn't live up to the segment it is in.
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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Forget classifications, see it this way, its either the biggest C segment car or the cheapest D-segment car
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:20   #245
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As per dimensions, Linea is in D segment.
So if tomorrow Fiat launches the Linea Emotion+ with a 1.9L 150bhp MJD with 6 speed M/T, people will pay Rs.17 lakhs for it?
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:20   #246
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Let us compare with 2-wheeler world. People who spend ~45K expect ~100CC bike. People who spend ~55K expect ~150CC bike. This is the point I am making.

As per dimensions, Linea is in D segment.
As per engine, it is in C- segment.
As per prices, it is in C segment.

My fear is this might put off the buyers, since Linea's engine doesn't live up to the segment it is in.
going back to a question asked here, which you avoided. The OHC with a 1.3 engine was priced at 10+L. As per your statement, it clearly is in c- segment and should have priced close to Ikon/Corsa. (actually lower, since Ikon was a 1.6)

So did Honda overprice and rip off customers then?
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:23   #247
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It would be a golden day if FIAT really assembles it here. Unlike 500, Bravo should be locally assembled (May be via CKD way). Bravo for 7-9L would be a real Fabia killer. Oh is Fabia already dead??
Forget this option. I remember that there was a thread which said so. I then mailed the CEO corner and got a reply from the CEO office stating that Bravo, like 500, is going to be a CBU because Fiat India wants it to be exclusive.

I personally think this is a bad decision. 500 being made exclusive is still OK, but Bravo...

Again, I had checked with the CEO office about the detuning of the Linea engines. The reply I got was that ARAI could achieve about 86 horses for JTD during their testing and according to some law in India, Fiat India is supposed to publish those figures as official figures, though the engine is designed to produce 90 horses.

The auto magazines did not have those figures at the time of testing and hence they had mentioned 90 bhp. He assured me that there is no detuning after the magazines tested the car.

Regarding introducing 1.6 JTD in Linea, Fiat India is going to take a call after the customer response to 1.3 JTD.
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:32   #248
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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
Again, I had checked with the CEO office about the detuning of the Linea engines. The reply I got was that ARAI could achieve about 86 horses for JTD during their testing and according to some law in India, Fiat India is supposed to publish those figures as official figures, though the engine is designed to produce 90 horses.
Thats interesting. But what about petrol, even that is lower than what it was originally supposed to be.
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:36   #249
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I did not specifically check for the petrol, but I assume that the reason is similar, though I can not substantiate the same.
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:42   #250
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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
Again, I had checked with the CEO office about the detuning of the Linea engines. The reply I got was that ARAI could achieve about 86 horses for JTD during their testing and according to some law in India, Fiat India is supposed to publish those figures as official figures, though the engine is designed to produce 90 horses.
So it is 90bhp in reality but 85bhp on paper? That's weird. Any why and how did ARAI achieve only 86bhp? I don't think this explanation sounds logical.
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:50   #251
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To me too, it did not sound logical for three reasons:

1. If ARAI was able to achieve 5 horses less for Linea, I guess it should pretty much be the same for all cars that have just gone to ARAI for whatever this process is called. Notably, ANHC and Xylo are the recent launches.

2. If ARAI has indeed achieved less horses for ANHC and Xylo, are Honda and M&M following this so-called law by announcing whatever ARAI achieved as their official figures?

3. 5 horses less in both petrol and diesel seems to be the pattern. It could very well mean that Fiat has detuned the engines.

But, I tend to believe the assurance that auto mags tested the same engine, as some guys were able to achieve around 15 secs for the Linea while test driving the car.
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:51   #252
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Question of the day: How to promote a Maruti 800 to C segment?

Ans: Plonk a 1.6 liter engine in it.

ps: Stupidity has no cure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Let us compare with 2-wheeler world. People who spend ~45K expect ~100CC bike. People who spend ~55K expect ~150CC bike. This is the point I am making.

As per dimensions, Linea is in D segment.
As per engine, it is in C- segment.
As per prices, it is in C segment.

My fear is this might put off the buyers, since Linea's engine doesn't live up to the segment it is in.
 
Old 20th January 2009, 12:16   #253
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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
The OHC with a 1.3 engine was priced at 10+L.
At the danger of going off-topic, the OHC 1.3 did not sell for 10+L, heck even the OHC 1.5VTEC did not cost so much ex-showroom.

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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
So did Honda overprice and rip off customers then?
Definitely overpriced as most people here (including the Honda fans) agree. As long as their cars continue to sell well, I dont see them bringing down the prices.

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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
Forget this option. I remember that there was a thread which said so. I then mailed the CEO corner and got a reply from the CEO office stating that Bravo, like 500, is going to be a CBU because Fiat India wants it to be exclusive.

I personally think this is a bad decision. 500 being made exclusive is still OK, but Bravo...
With this attitude, they will make the Linea an exclusive car too . First let them re-build the brand value and trust among customers before thinking about niche/exclusive models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
So it is 90bhp in reality but 85bhp on paper? That's weird. Any why and how did ARAI achieve only 86bhp? I don't think this explanation sounds logical.
Not sure, can it be to do with the Indian conditions? (Fuel standards, weather, etc). Personally, I would love to see the 1.9MJT engine on the Linea as it deserves a better one.
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Old 20th January 2009, 12:31   #254
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Specs look close to Sonata. If Sonata sells, then why not?
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
So if tomorrow Fiat launches the Linea Emotion+ with a 1.9L 150bhp MJD with 6 speed M/T, people will pay Rs.17 lakhs for it?
I am collecting information, so that I can reply with correct facts.
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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
going back to a question asked here, which you avoided.

Last edited by Technocrat : 20th January 2009 at 18:48. Reason: fixed end quote
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Old 20th January 2009, 15:53   #255
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Diabloo and Skywalker and others, I came this thread to read about GP, not some stupid rants about product dimensions and standards and classification of some other products. This thread belongs to Grand Punto and if you guys are not diligent enough to stick to the topic, MODS please close this thread asap.
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