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Old 14th August 2007, 14:53   #31
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Satya_nars,
You are wrong about the Fiesta 1.6---from March, 2007, it comes with ABS. Prior to March, it came with alloys, and ABS was optional. Now it is the reverse---alloys are now optional.

Last edited by vnabhi : 14th August 2007 at 14:54. Reason: Forgot name
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Old 14th August 2007, 14:57   #32
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Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
Having disc brakes doesn't induce any skidding. It happens when the brakes are not biased accordingly.

I repeat- this is a one off case. Handling of NHC VTEC at high speeds could be debatable, but that is a different topic altogether.
May be I was wrong. I have one question here. Doesn't having a disc brake in the rear cause more chances of locking up as compared to a drum brake? Or is the other way around?
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Old 14th August 2007, 14:58   #33
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Reminds me of the pre ABS days. I was constantly reminded to pump the brakes to prevent tyre lock & skidding. I'm sure most cars without ABS will have tyre lock and skid when we do emergency breaking. Especially if its wet, or loose sand is on the road..anything that provides less grip to the surface.

If I remember rightly there were no cars with ABS 2 years back within 10 lakhs range. One of the reasons for postponing buying any car then.
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:04   #34
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
interesting, and good find gt_bhp. ishaan could this feeling that i have whenever i take a sharp turn on a NHC about the tyre dislodging (kind of sliping out of the rim, inwards) and the car turning on the rims really be extrapolated in Laxminarayan's case to explain what happened to him? Probably it actually happened in his case. Now that I read his case I get this wierd feeling that without going through the same ordeal I also had this feeling a couple of times that I was a step away from experiencing a slipped tyre. How wierd!
Zappo - LM's case was different as he had experienced a near-complete deflation in one of his tyres IIRC. That we can't compare with a correctly inflated tyre.

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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Laxminarayan, was also telling me during the TBHP meet at Yelagiri how inconfident he feels when driving the NHC VTEC at high speeds owing to the disconnected feeling which the steering provides.
I feel that the steering issue owes more to the fact that Honda with the NHC switched to EPS rather than the earlier Hydraulic system in the OHC. It is a well known fact that EPS systems are pretty much lifeless & have no feel whatsoever, in most cars this leads to a feeling of disconnected & aloofness especially when at speeds & taking turns.

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Originally Posted by amit View Post
What size tyres does Honda give with the NHC VTEC?

I am no expert at this but I feel that there is more to this issue then just puny tyres and absence of ABS. The Baleno was a powerful car too (94 bhp) with puny tyres and no ABS but didn't have this issue. What about the 102 bhp SX4 Vxi with no ABS? What is it's tyre size compared to NHC VTEC?

We should do a comparo of powerful cars with no ABS with original tyres and that will give us a better idea. Baleno (94hp), SX4 (102hp), Fiesta 1.6 (100hp), Verna Petrol (100+bhp), Palio 1.6 (100hp) are cars that we should compare with NHC VTEC. If all the above cars with no ABS run on puny tyres and don't skid then I don't see why the NHC skidding should be acceptable?
In addition to the sizes posted above, the Baleno earlier came with 165/80 R13 which were woefully thin for the power on offer but MUL later equipped the VXi with 185/65 R14 while continuing the LXi on 165/80 R13. Since MUL did the upgrade themselves can we deduce that they realised that this was a problem or shortcoming in their own product?

Also for the skidding I think quite a bit of the blame also lies with the stock Bridgestone S322 tyres, they are hard & are woefully short of grip for a car with decent power. My OHC also came equipped with the same tyres but I upgraded them (Both in Width & Better Compound) on day one itself so can't draw a direct comparison. But I was recently was driving a NHC with stock S322's and in a hard braking situation they locked up way, way too early compared to my earlier Energy's or current Preceda's.

I've been noticing that with the City, Honda has been going the MUL way of fitting thinner tyres so as to improve the FE figures & needless to say I usually advise people to fit better tyres from day one on their cars.
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:22   #35
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
I've been noticing that with the City, Honda has been going the MUL way of fitting thinner tyres so as to improve the FE figures & needless to say I usually advise people to fit better tyres from day one on their cars.
Guess you meant Baleno and before. Now SX4 is way ahead of its competitors in safety wrt tyre sizes, ABS/EBD, etc. Of course this compromises FE, but in panic situations like Amit faced, none of us would really think about FE, but safety.
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:28   #36
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Man, you sound like all NHC VTECs have this problem. But the issue specific to one user only. Similarly one of our members' Verna's axle broke. That doesn't mean that all Vernas are scary to drive. People have hit 190+Kmph on NHC VTEC. NHC VTEC has won drag races.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sathya_nars View Post
Guess you meant Baleno and before. Now SX4 is way ahead of its competitors in safety wrt tyre sizes, ABS/EBD, etc. Of course this compromises FE, but in panic situations like Amit faced, none of us would really think about FE, but safety.
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:29   #37
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Originally Posted by balaji_n29 View Post
VTEC has Disc breaks at the rear and the rest of the pack have Drum breaks at the rear which makes skidding more prominent in the VTEC.
My understanding is: having disc brakes in both front & rear gives good grip and better braking capability (read as 'avoids skidding'), but it costs more (that's why manufacturers don't give disc for rear for lower segments) - is my understanding wrong?

If having disc in rear introduces skidding (or makes it prominent, if you want to call), then why do the manufacturers provide it with high cost and high risk of skidding ?
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:35   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sathya_nars View Post
My understanding is: having disc brakes in both front & rear gives good grip and better braking capability (read as 'avoids skidding'), but it costs more (that's why manufacturers don't give disc for rear for lower segments) - is my understanding wrong?
Your understanding is absolutely correct, I have not heard of rear discs inducing skidding or wheel lock-ups, rather the braking should improve

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
I've been noticing that with the City, Honda has been going the MUL way of fitting thinner tyres so as to improve the FE figures & needless to say I usually advise people to fit better tyres from day one on their cars.
Apart from the Baleno, there aren't any others in the MUL stable are there?
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:42   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sathya_nars View Post
Guess you meant Baleno and before. Now SX4 is way ahead of its competitors in safety wrt tyre sizes, ABS/EBD, etc. Of course this compromises FE, but in panic situations like Amit faced, none of us would really think about FE, but safety.
Only cars with decent tyres in the Maruti lineup are the SX4 & the GV. If you want proof, look at the Swift LXi/VXi/LDi/VDi, we all know they need much better tyres than what is standard & even the ZXi itself comes on wider tyres than these models. AFAIR the Swift came after the Baleno, didn't it?

I don't think MUL has yet learnt the lesson (bar the SX4) for its mass market cars otherwise it would give the Swift Diesel especially a better set of tyres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Apart from the Baleno, there aren't any others in the MUL stable are there?
There is the Swift Suman.

Last edited by iraghava : 14th August 2007 at 15:43.
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:47   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
If you want proof, look at the Swift LXi/VXi/LDi/VDi, we all know they need much better tyres than what is standard & even the ZXi itself comes on wider tyres than these models. AFAIR the Swift came after the Baleno, didn't it?

There is the Swift Suman.
Ishan, I agree that the Swift perhaps needs better tyres but what I'm asking is - have they given thinner tyres just to improve FE? I'm not so sure - does the ZXI give poorer mileage than the VXI or LXI? Not sure.

With the NHC, its a question of thinner tyres for better FE across the board isn't it?

Last edited by suman : 14th August 2007 at 15:49.
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:48   #41
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Is Swift's tyre sizes not at all comparable with competitors or little bit better?
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:53   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Ishan, I agree that the Swift perhaps needs better tyres but what I'm asking is - have they given thinner tyres just to improve FE? I'm not so sure - does the ZXI give poorer mileage than the VXI or LXI? Not sure.

With the NHC, its a question of thinner tyres for better FE across the board isn't it?
Suman, thinner tyres have a direct impact on FE due to the lesser rolling resistance so I would expect that LXi/VXi would give better FE than the ZXi but can't be sure since I don't have either & haven't done a direct comparison of the same.

And if you look at the NHC EXi/GXi they have only 77 bhp anyway, so I wouls say the 175's would be sufficient for them. For the VTEC yes, the 175's are too small.
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Old 14th August 2007, 16:02   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sathya_nars View Post
Is Swift's tyre sizes not at all comparable with competitors or little bit better?
Agree with iraghava, stock tyres on Swift Lxi, Vxi, Ldi, Vdi are very skinny!

Atleast for the Diesel version priced 6 lacs+, they should have given wider tyres.
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Old 14th August 2007, 16:47   #44
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LOL just because SX-4 has been released from the stables of Maruti with ABS ,Airbags blah blah, does that mean the other manufacturers have been below par with their products in terms of safety ?

Guys I think it has more to do with the system here that anything and everything sells here.
If the gov' is to impose strict rules on the safety features am sure all these manufacturers would have made safety features mandatory.

Quote:
Similarly one of our members' Verna's axle broke. That doesn't mean that all Vernas are scary to drive.
Exactly did that deter other people from buying Verna's ?

Last edited by rjstyles69 : 14th August 2007 at 16:50.
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Old 14th August 2007, 16:59   #45
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stock tyres on most of indian cars are inadequate, till say 8 lakh bracket
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