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Old 16th August 2007, 22:16   #1
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Default All Honda cars e10 compliant

I saw an ad in today's TOI bangalore edition from Honda claiming all its cars are E10 ready (10% ethanol mix with Petrol). I did read about this E10 being considered by the government for enforcement sometime back as this link says.

Im just trying to understand what made honda come with such an ad now. Is the law imminent or is it just a gimmick to say we are ahead of technology and showcase E10 instead of a diesel powerplant from honda that india desperately wants.

On a sidenote. considering the craze for the "H" badge in India, a diesel burner would be a Mega Blockbuster.
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Old 17th August 2007, 00:31   #2
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found this link.very informative.
RAA Motoring All About Cars Ethanol in Petrol
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Old 17th August 2007, 01:36   #3
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My Cedia manual says it can run on anything upto E15 (upto 15% ethanol). Nothing new I guess... most modern cars can run on ethanol blended petrol.
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Old 17th August 2007, 02:53   #4
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Honda has been advertising it in newspapers too about their cars being E10
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Old 17th August 2007, 11:58   #5
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This same issue has been touched by me in this thread. Perhaps, the two can be merged. Bottomline: All cars (not just Honda) are e10 compliant and more. In India, only e5 is used and the take up of that has been extremely poor.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...hlight=ethanol (Ethanol 5%, 10% blending)
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Old 17th August 2007, 12:05   #6
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Ethanol is made by fermentation, right? Good news for sugarcane planters...
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Old 17th August 2007, 12:13   #7
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Originally Posted by abhilashvk View Post
Ethanol is made by fermentation, right? Good news for sugarcane planters...
While US uses corn/maize, all other countries incl. India use sugarcane. Brazil is the largest sugarcane producer and nearly 50% of its output is used for ethanol. High oil prices encourage diversion of sugarcane to ethanol production rather than sugar. In fact, all biofuels (ethanol and biodiesel) are made out of food crops, and thus there is a danger of not enough sugar/rapeseed/soyabean production for food purposes.

While sugar prices are in free fall now because of record production worldwide, edible oil prices and corn prices are reaching new records precisely because of this diversion. In the US, more soyabean is now being diverted towards biodiesel production. The EU is also now diverting more rapeseed towards biodiesel.

The feedstock base for ethanol production is gradually widening to wood and cellulosic feedstock such as agricultural plant wastes (corn stover, cereal straws, sugarcane bagasse), plant wastes from industrial processes (sawdust, paper pulp) and energy crops grown specifically for fuel production, such as switchgrass. Such low cost feedstock would result in increased production potential for low cost ethanol. However, the present high cost of such cellulosic products us the key barrier to economic production of cellulosic ethanol.
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Old 17th August 2007, 12:20   #8
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Thanks vasudeva,thats was a good piece of information. I am sure if this is widely accepted, it will bring a big smile to lot of farmers cultivating these... Also not to mention the recycle of plant wastes from paper factories and wood mills
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Old 17th August 2007, 12:27   #9
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[quote=superamerica;534644]I saw an ad in today's TOI bangalore edition from Honda claiming all its cars are E10 ready (10% ethanol mix with Petrol). I did read about this E10 being considered by the government for enforcement sometime back as this link says.

To say that there is an extra cost to making it E10 compliant implies that automakers want to increase prices. Automakers are suffering from lower margins because of tougher selling conditions (higher fuel prices, higher interest rates). It is just as big a fraud on ignoramuses as Honda touting its `tech for tomorrow'. All cars are naturally E5/E10 compliant, and Brazil has been using e10 for more than 30 years. It just shows that automakers who complain about rising costs of e10 compliance are either fooling the public or selling 50-year old technology. Why 50 years, say 80 years. Ethanol as an automotive fuel has its origins in the early 20th century. In the US, ethanol was used to fuel cars well into the 1920-1930s. However, by the 1940s, fuels from petroleum and natural gas became available in large quantities at low cost, eliminating the economic incentives for ethanol production. Interest in ethanol was renewed in the 1970s with the oil supply disruptions in the Middle East and sharp hike in oil prices. Many oil companies began to market ethanol as a gasoline volume extender and as an octane booster.

That being said, in India, even E5 has been beset by procurement problems. In fact with lower sugar prices, sugar industry is now lobbying for E10 because it gives them more revenues to compensate for the free fall in sugar prices expected over the next 1 year.As compared with selling price of around Rs. 19-21.50/litre, the cost of production of ethanol depends on the price of molasses, which fluctuates widely during the sugar season. The present average cost of ethanol production is estimated at Rs. 16-18/litre. However, with expected record sugarcane and sugar output during 2006-08, and low sugar and molasses prices, the cost of production of ethanol is expected to remain low and the sugar industry may find it economically viable to supply ethanol for e5 and e10.
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Old 17th August 2007, 12:46   #10
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Are MUL cars equiped to handle Ethanol blended petrol? My SWIFT service manual doesnot mention anything about Ethanol.
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Old 17th August 2007, 12:48   #11
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The grains used in the production of ethanol are not fit for human consumption i.e. its a different seed meant for producing high quality ethanol and the end-waste once processed, is used as cattle feed. The farmers get decent returns for this produce, which they use for growing other edible crops (a farmer can grow many crops in a year).

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
While US uses corn/maize, all other countries incl. India use sugarcane. Brazil is the largest sugarcane producer and nearly 50% of its output is used for ethanol. High oil prices encourage diversion of sugarcane to ethanol production rather than sugar. In fact, all biofuels (ethanol and biodiesel) are made out of food crops, and thus there is a danger of not enough sugar/rapeseed/soyabean production for food purposes.

While sugar prices are in free fall now because of record production worldwide, edible oil prices and corn prices are reaching new records precisely because of this diversion. In the US, more soyabean is now being diverted towards biodiesel production. The EU is also now diverting more rapeseed towards biodiesel.

The feedstock base for ethanol production is gradually widening to wood and cellulosic feedstock such as agricultural plant wastes (corn stover, cereal straws, sugarcane bagasse), plant wastes from industrial processes (sawdust, paper pulp) and energy crops grown specifically for fuel production, such as switchgrass. Such low cost feedstock would result in increased production potential for low cost ethanol. However, the present high cost of such cellulosic products us the key barrier to economic production of cellulosic ethanol.
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Old 17th August 2007, 12:55   #12
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I have said enough. When the IEA, OECD, and all other auto manufacturers in their official testimonies (and not some blabber to the press) say no engine mods or other things are required, then why believe press blabber or absence of things in the manual. Brazil has been using more than 10% ethanol for more than 30 years. If you are in UP, Delhi, Uttaranchal, Karnataka, Goa, Maharashtra (partially), and AP (partially), your Swift or any other car is already using E5 without you knowing or your car packing up. So stop believing all nonsense and refer to your manual for everything under the sun.
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Old 17th August 2007, 13:22   #13
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Well, there was talk of the govt mandating E petrol from October 07 onwards.
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