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Old 27th March 2012, 14:32   #16
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Default Re: Same car, different brands!

Quote:
Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Cars i can think of top of my head are :

1. Vento - Rapid
2. Polo - Fabia
3. Micra - Pulse
4. Sunny & soon-to-be-launched Scala

Regards,
Polo and Fabia are not same cars.
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:49   #17
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Default Re: Same car, different brands!

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Polo and Fabia are not same cars.
Sorry for the mis leading info.

But i always thought that Polo & Fabia are 2 exact same cars technically and mechanically but in different clothing just like the 2 elder siblings, Vento & Rapid.

Regards,
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:53   #18
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Default Re: Same car, different brands!

Quote:
Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Sorry for the mis leading info.

But i always thought that Polo & Fabia are 2 exact same cars technically and mechanically but in different clothing just like the 2 elder siblings, Vento & Rapid.

Regards,
They are based on different generations of the Polo.

However, the badge engineering concept is not entirely new. We have had similar instances right from olden days.

Say, Dodge, DeSoto, Plymouth, Chrysler used to sell different trim levels of predominantly same cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilful View Post
Just imagine if the Tatas had some deal with Honda (for example) and got Nano badged under the Honda roof (with some minor tweaks on the grill or something) and sold...
On a different note, in late 80's Tata used to import/market Honda cars Accord/Civic.

Last edited by 1100D : 27th March 2012 at 14:56.
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:59   #19
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Default Re: Same car, different brands!

I for one, fail to find the "curse/evil" in such badge engineering. As a matter of fact, in the current scenario, i find the cases of Pulse-Micra or Rapid-Vento, to be quite sensible.

As for the Renault-Nissan JV : They have a sparse dealership network across the country and as such they would want to use every tiny bit of their sparse showroom space to cater to the widest possible audience. They would want to have a small hatch, sedans catering to 2-3 segments and SUVs on display to attract customers from the entire spectrum. Now, sans a Pulse (or the Sunny double), a Renault showroom would not be able to cater to the hatch owing class or the entry level sedan dwellers which would ultimately lead to dwindling footfall in their showrooms and consequently lead to wastage of critical resources. Similarly, without a Duster clone, the Nissan showroom would lack an entry level SUV, even a Nissan badged Fluence clone would nicely fill the wide gap between the Sunny and the Teana in Nissan showrooms. Resorting to badge engineering for such players seems to be the only way out as not only do they cut down on R & D and enjoy the benefits of part sharing, they can manage with their existing assembly lines as well. For low volume / new players like Renault this seems to fit the bill perfectly.
Just for the sake of comparison, a Maruti showroom, which anyways outnumber Renault-Nissan showrooms by a multiple of hundreds, offers atleast 8 hatchbacks (with a very evident amount of part sharing/ cross-engineering amongst them), 3 sedans, 2 MUVs and even a SUV(albeit just for the sake). It is therefore imperative for the competitors of MS down the chain to have atleast one product in every segment to make their presence felt.
Moreover, with this, they get more Renault/Nissan branded cars on road, which ultimately helps in brand recognition.
Customers who like other qualities of the Micra but despise the looks, finds an option in the Pulse and vice-versa, so they end up not losing such customers to competitors with wider product portfolios. Ditto with the Sunny, if in a case where the Sunny is gutted with that much despised "taxi image", a cosmetically refined Sunny in a Renault avatar can fix that for you. Now, where's the curse in that? Or am i missing something?
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Old 27th March 2012, 15:16   #20
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Default Re: Same car, different brands!

It might sound absurd to the learned folks here but surprisingly enough most people don't realize that the cars are the same with minor tweaks here and there.
Take for example the Rapid and the Vento.
By launching the Rapid Volkswagen AG has given an option to people looking to buy a Skoda in this segment [and there are quite of a few of those people aside of the A.S.S. woes].

One of my friends had to buy a car in this segment and even after driving the Vento and Rapid almost back to back the only remark he made is how similar the two are and how the Skoda edged past the Vento. He ended up with the Rapid.

So to answer your question they are just betting on perceptions and the general ignorance of an average car buyer coupled with an individual's affinity towards a particular brand.

It's not a bad thing IMO. Better utilization of resources, technologies and platforms before they become obsolete.
And looking at the combined sales figures of the cars in question whoever came up with this idea must be lauded
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Old 27th March 2012, 15:47   #21
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Default Re: Rebranding/ Badge Engineering

Most manufacturers do that. Even Honda has changed badges.

Honda had to enter with SUV in then SUV booming US market. Quick fix. Isuzu Rodeo is now Honda Passport. Meanwhile, Isuzu used Odyssey as Oasis and Civic/Domani as Gemini.
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Old 27th March 2012, 21:43   #22
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Default Re: Rebranding/ Badge Engineering

Two reasons come to my mind immediately
1. Rebadging helps to plug gaps in the porfolio sans the cost burden of developing a new product.
2. Leveraging synergies helps to price the product appropriately for a particular market.

Moreover, rebadging helps to extend the appeal of an existing badge to an hitherto uncovered market segment without changing the original badge's focus, USP, price point, and target market. For example, Rapid extends Vento's reach to a more value-conscious customer without diluting Vento's image. Similarly, Scala wants to ride on Sunny's success by extending the reach to a more premium-conscious customer. Whether this always works is a different story.
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Old 28th March 2012, 00:31   #23
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Default Re: Rebranding/ Badge Engineering

There is also one more advantage...the ability to extend the portfolio of a dealer. Thus if a dealer was selling 2 unique models previously, with 1 or 2 badge engineered models the dealer is able to sell 4 models. This increases the ability of the dealer to have a larger footfalls at the showroom and thus potentially sell more cars and make the dealership more viable.
But there is a downside too to this. This may result in several overlapping models, price points and eventually complicates the ability of a manufacturer and a dealer to sell to a specific customer segment.
Badge engineering was rampant with most American brands, like several Chevys were sold as Pontiacs, Dodge as Chryslers, Ford as Lincolns, even some Nissans as Infinitys and Chevys as Saabs (!) earlier. Eventually with the economic meltdown they realized that there isn't enough space for so many models and wisely reorganized the portfolio of models.
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Old 28th March 2012, 11:37   #24
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Default Re: Rebranding/ Badge Engineering

Cars sold under a different badge/brand based on geography and market affinities are quite common (e.g.; Sukuki SX4 sold as Fiat Sedici in Europe).
But identical products sold under different brands in the same market looks like an interesting ploy. At least, looking at the Vento-Rapid sales, it surely is working for the parent company.

Anyway, brand affinities based on the cars country of origin is getting largely irrelevant.
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Old 28th March 2012, 12:26   #25
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Default Re: Rebranding/ Badge Engineering

Feel this is fine as a practice. And infact is not just limited to cars at the low or mid end but is a practice followed even for higher end vehicles.

Advantages:
1) Lesser development cost due to joint development.
2) Tap brand loyalty for different brands with the same models under different brands.
3) Minor tweaks to the cars can make it look better or worse for a particular audience set. I for example find the Pulse to look better and more Macho than the Micra and similarly like the Rapid over the vento. While my wife likes the Micra and the Vento more than the Pulse and the Rapid.

Also rebadging like Chevrolet has done over time for all their vehicles has worked for them as Daewoo and Opel both don't really have a good name out here in India today.
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Old 28th March 2012, 13:30   #26
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Default Re: Rebranding/ Badge Engineering

This practice end of the day is nothing but a cost saving measure. I agree with an earlier post that it helps the company to have a wider range. But I'm against companies selling cars with hardly any changes. It will only hurt them in the long run.
Rapid / Vento is still fine, as skoda has taken efforts to change the bonnet, front lights, interior colors etc. even the suspension set up has been changed slightly. H.ever, in the case of nissan-renault they seem to be hardly doing anything except for a very minor cosmetic change. How do dealers market a pulse over a micra if latter is priced cheaper? In case of skoda/VW, skoda has a brand connect here, but renault is yet to do so. I'm waiting to see the Renault's treatment of the Sunny.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 19:14   #27
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Default Re: Rebranding/ Badge Engineering

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
This practice end of the day is nothing but a cost saving measure. I agree with an earlier post that it helps the company to have a wider range. But I'm against companies selling cars with hardly any changes. It will only hurt them in the long run.
Rapid / Vento is still fine, as skoda has taken efforts to change the bonnet, front lights, interior colors etc. even the suspension set up has been changed slightly. H.ever, in the case of nissan-renault they seem to be hardly doing anything except for a very minor cosmetic change. How do dealers market a pulse over a micra if latter is priced cheaper? In case of skoda/VW, skoda has a brand connect here, but renault is yet to do so. I'm waiting to see the Renault's treatment of the Sunny.
Just came across this news on the net. After Micra/Pulse, Renault is planning another crossover. Here are the excerpts from IOL Motoring.

"Renault is reportedly about to capitalise on the success of Nissan's eccentric little Juke crossover by creating its own version.

Given the French company's alliance with Nissan, the vehicle would share most of its mechanical components with the Juke but have completely different styling. According to the UK's Auto Express magazine, the Renault crossover's design would be inspired by the Capture concept that you see in the pictures - albeit toned down.

This means it'll be the first Renault crossover to explore Renault's more vibrant design language, as previewed by its most recent batch of concept cars.

Don't expect anything radical mechanically, with most models being front-wheel driven by the same range of engines that you'd find in the Juke. These include an 81kW 1.5-litre turbodiesel and 86kW 1.6 petrol, with the 140kW 1.6 turbopetrol an enticing possibility - perhaps even with RS or Gordini badging.

The Juke-based crossover will form part of a totally rejuvenated Renault small car range, including the facelifted Twingo, Zoe electric hatch and the next-generation Clio, which is due to be shown toward the end of this year."

Original Source: IOL Motoring dated April 3, 2012.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 08:36   #28
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Question Sharing After Sales and Service Between Sister Brands

From a marketing point of view, I agree rebranding and badge engineering makes sense - you have 2 different "perceptions" to cater to using the same product. Its also true from (internal) spares point of view which are again shared between the two vehicles. But what about after sales service ?

Let me put it this way - people compare Pulse and Micra and say Micra is better because Nissan has a better dealer network. If they are the same cars on the inside, why force owners to go to a particular brand's dealer ? Lets say a Pulse breaks down outside a Nissan showroom and its still under warranty. Would the Nissan showroom honor the commitments for the Pulse's warranty if there is no Renault showroom around ? And what about cities with only 1 or 2 showrooms ? Isn't sharing of after sales duties between showrooms better, as it doubles network coverage ?
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Old 2nd September 2012, 11:44   #29
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Default

In India it makes more sense as cost of a car is closely related to the ' image ' of the car.

e.g. Nissan sunny rebranded as scala (scala being a brand a segment above in foreign markets)

Rapid/vento

Nissan evalia / ashok leyland cv


In the US. the Nissan sunny (versa) starts at 10k with most basic features and goes upto 18k fully loaded.

Observing comments on the forum, people have a more favourable attitude to 85 PS duster and less towards the 110 PS version due to higher cost. As it goes a segment above.

Rebadged cars in india will allow companies to present cars as a higher end brand to milk margins and target mass market with lower cost versions to bring down maintenance costs and R and D costs.
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Old 25th May 2013, 19:20   #30
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Default Re: Rebranding/ Badge Engineering

Renault-Nissan to officially end their run of badge engineered vehicles; Duster-based Nissan crossover to be the last of the lot.
http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/cars/n...r-india-70872/

Glad they finally realized it wasn't working at all.
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