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Old 1st September 2007, 21:05   #61
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Diesels emit black smoke, petrol emit white smoke, so how does it matter which ever colour the smoke is as long as it doesnot do much harm.
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Old 1st September 2007, 21:27   #62
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Well actually i dont know about this but dont the Diesel cars need to have a pollution check or something. If yes then how come there are so many polluting cars moving around, its a case of govt. being easy with them till now and suddenly ban

What i feel is that they have taken it step by step, first trucks, then buses and now cars.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 00:18   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Law makers first should be "educated", then they can do some good to the world.
I have a feeling that Law makers along with the Media, if given a chance will make this the best fiasco, of the new millennium.
When will we get our facts correct?
Speaking of getting facts correct, it's not "law makers" bringing about this ban, with respect to the fact that such the phrase "law makers" is used for legislators, i.e. MPs. The ban of diesel cars is being considered by the High Court, and more specifically one bench of the High court.

However, I do agree with you that such a move should be initiated by expert opinion and not the lay opinion of judges.

Also, I haven't seen much news lately, but is the media actually supporting this ban as you seemingly purport?

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Originally Posted by BMW77 View Post
Gift them with indica (NA) and they will re-think.
Why do people on this forum have such a thing for indicas? At best it's a very ordinary car.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 00:32   #64
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instead of banning why can't they implement emission control rules effectively in all parts of the country
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Old 2nd September 2007, 09:59   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
The main reason for more pollution by Diesel cars (including CRD or any latest engines) in India is Diesel quality is pathetic in India it has more sulphur etc. which makes cars smoke too much resulting heavy pollution.

Ravi.
Diesel has high sulphur, so the answer is to ban diesel cars? What about petrol having lead in it? Was the answer to ban petrol cars? Or to regulate kind of petrol being sold?


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I know members in TBHP talk technically but in reality Diesel cars pollute too much in India. This is main reason to phase out Diesel cars.
What is too much? Diesel cars in India meet Euro III standards, with Euro IV coming up. This is with Indian diesel. There is no such thing as zero pollution, there is always an emission, the question is how much. So what standard do you propose?

By the way, do you believe that diesel cars meeting Euro III pollute too much, and petrol cars are OK? The kind of thinking that leads to banning diesel cars also leads to banning petrol cars.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 12:04   #66
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If this ban comes through and if you guys are right about diesel not being any more polluting than petrol cars, you should challenge this decision.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 13:12   #67
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what i feel is that any car deisel or petrol not mantained and driven properly will pollute . solution not lies with ban but enforcing pollution laws for motorvehicles properly.

proposed solution
instead of allowing someone at every nook and corner of city to issue no polution certificate only limited and senior government officials should be assigned duty with pollution check booths.
government should create new post for such officers . would cause a bit inconvenience but will be fruit full in the long run
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Old 5th September 2007, 10:40   #68
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Recently Govt and departments & law agencies has been acting strongly. Recent sealings, IIM Seat regulations, Tax laws getting tighter, phasing out cart pullers in cities, shops in homes, no sheet covered windows, film stars being pulled under tight laws etc. It may not be a surprise if Diesels may altogether be forced to be converted to CNG as mentioned. However what happens only time will tell.
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Old 6th September 2007, 20:03   #69
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CALIPER I don't have answers, may be you ask Judge/whoever wants to pass this law/order.

I have typed what I read and understood from different known sources.
Last week I did emission check of my Petrol Innova which is routine testing I do on my cars We need to make sure we don't pollute our country which is more important than If Diesel pollute more or Petrol but what I heard is whatever may be norm or standard indian Diesel pollute more than Indian Petrol. However Diesel lover or car owner will claim other way around saying Petrol cars pollute more.

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 6th September 2007, 21:07   #70
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Hmm... this is turning out to be interesting. Couple of weeks back, it was reported on this thread that the Delhi HC has actually ordered banning use of diesel cars; and now it turns out that the ban is only under consideration.

Whether the ban is in place or not, I feel that the HC is not the proper authority to consider that question. I will repeat that statement anywhere, and in case TBHP receives a notice from the HC for carrying this statement, please send me a PM. The honourable Delhi High court is not the proper forum to decide the fuel to be used in vehicles.

The real problem with New Delhi and Bangalore is that it is simply impossible to reach anywhere by public transport. (Mumbai and Chennai have a far, far better public transport system). The situation is so horrid in Delhi that way back in 1997, a friend took a bike all the way from Thiruvananthapuram to New Delhi by train for a 5 day stay there, because cost of transportation by train from TVM - ND + petrol in ND is
far less than bus /auto fare he would incur in ND. I suppose the situation has not improved now - the Metro system is economical only for people who commute above 10KM TWICE a day - not for the people who do multiple hops a day.

Real public transport does involve a good bus system - like in Mumbai and Chennai. Unless that is in place, neither Delhi, nor Bangalore will solve their transport and road congestion problem.

Coming to the fuel issue - my point is - the HC first has to tackle availability of public transport issue, and IMHO, the pollution / congestion issues will solve themselves. Again, choice of fuel is a policy issue, and courts should keep their hands off policy issues. (no, will not add "IMHO" there.) The judiciary is simply not equipped to legislate. But then, the Delhi transportation administration - whatever it is - if it exists, is simply not working; and if it does, is a rubber stamp for the monopolistic DTC. What Delhi really needs is injection of a few transport operators who own at least 150 buses each to avoid the chaos of the current bu blue line killers (one owner owns just one or two buses). Such "big small" operators will certainly provide DTC some good competition and provide very good alternative means of transport to the public.

Will the HC solve the transportation problem? The pollution from automobiles problem is only a symptom of the disease called lack of public transport.
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Old 6th September 2007, 22:04   #71
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Quote:
proposed solution
instead of allowing someone at every nook and corner of city to issue no polution certificate only limited and senior government officials should be assigned duty with pollution check booths.
government should create new post for such officers . would cause a bit inconvenience but will be fruit full in the long run __________________
Just another point for corruption to set in IMO.
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Old 7th September 2007, 01:20   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
The main reason for more pollution by Diesel cars (including CRD or any latest engines) in India is Diesel quality is pathetic in India it has more sulphur etc. which makes cars smoke too much resulting heavy pollution.

I know members in TBHP talk technically but in reality Diesel cars pollute too much in India. This is main reason to phase out Diesel cars.

This is indirectly notice to Fuel refinaries as well, If they prepare better quality Diesel with no or very less adultration then Judge will rethink to pass the order! Thats it.

When some one makes comment here I feel we should consider balance between technical and reality in India.

In India Diesel cars are suitable only for very high users like clocking more than 2000km per month at least, the reason any good Diesel Engine die much faster than Petrol engine in India or at least Diesel engines need lot of maintanance. Car manufacturers/executives are brain washing innocent Indian public and they buy Diesel cars thinking thinking they save money but they will loose money in long run. Hard earned money goes in vain. This is whats happening for many car owners by choosing wrong product. So this might have made law In India/Media make news saying Diesel cars will phased out. This news will result in awareness bell for many people.

I am nothing against Diesel vehicle but according to me in Indian condition its long way to go for Diesel vehicles to see good reliable product. Present Diesel offerrings suit high users.

Regards,

Ravi.
Badly maintained diesel cars pollute too much. Since most diesel cars are taxi's and commercial, they are not well maintained. So penalizing all diesel car owners is govt shirking responsibility.
E-III and e-IV norms have a reason. The govt's job is enforcement. The judges should pull up the police departments for not enforcing the PUC laws

In Delhi the source of pollution is Diesel trucks and not cars. But by banning truck entry how will lawmakers get hafta, so they have to pretend they are doing something useful.

As for fuel adulteration, kerosene in Petrol means very very high level on pollution. So by your logic, due to adulterated fuel, petrol cars should be banned too. Infact all vehicles which pollute when given adulterated fuel should be banned.

The Govt is voted in for a reason. Those judges and police officials and govt officials of RTO etc., get they salaries for a reason. If they are corrupt criminals, they should not try to wash their hands of their jobs by causing inconvenience to the common public. What is this? A banana republic.

Tomorrow a statistic will come out that most accidents are caused by people in 25-35 age bracket, so the Delhi High court passes a judgement that people between 25-35 can't drive?

About your other comments about diesel engines dying sooner blah blah, I call BS.
Please quote your sources.
A diesel engine which is maintained to its regular schedule will outlast a petrol engine. Inherently due to lower RPM and peak torque at lower RPM a modern diesel engine has a longer life. Thats why Europe is going the diesel way(there is hardly any price differential there between the prices).

Please provide some valid sources and studies which prove that a modern diesel engine maintained according to manufacturer specifications dies sooner than a petrol engine.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 7th September 2007 at 01:22.
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Old 11th September 2007, 16:00   #73
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http://wheels.indiatimes.com/article...91,curpg-1.cms

Irrespective of whether this SHOULD happen, do you guys think this WILL happen ?
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Old 11th September 2007, 16:15   #74
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How i wish, the court could pass an order to scrap out all the autos in b'lore ...They are the biggest culprit for pollution in the city !!
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Old 11th September 2007, 16:34   #75
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Saw in sunday news again that they realized that banning Diesel vehicles in ND is not possible so trached the plan donno till what time it wont arises again.
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