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Old 13th September 2007, 18:06   #121
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That's an interesting speculation by Sudharshansarma. So maybe even if the Indian's at Honda with a better perspective of local market conditions want a better strategy the japs won't let them have their way. However competition and regulation will resolve this, just a matter of time.
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Old 13th September 2007, 22:36   #122
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Originally Posted by pmbabu View Post
BUSA, have to disagree with you here, 10kmpl is unbelievably less mileage for NHC. I have never managed to get less than 11kmpl and I have driven 16K already. Almost 90% of the times I have measured, mileage has been between 12.5 and 14kmpl (All figures for city driving with 90-95% AC).

Regarding power, again I will disagree with you; this is *very* relative. Even when the car is fully loaded with 5 ppl and boot with loads of luggage, I haven't felt that there is less power. Of course, I haven't attempted to go beyond 140 with that much load, but I don't have the need either. And no, I haven't felt uncomfortable overtaking either.
Buddy, people ride 100cc bikes they dont think its underpowered, people ride 400cc bikes feel the need for a 600cc, the mileage i got of 10kmpl was with 100% AC, changing gears around 3000RPM and speeds of 120-130kmph, 5th gear at 70-80kmpl, the loweret i got was 10, the best i got was 11.6kmpl, considering the car is expected to give 16kmpl according to some mags and 27kmpl in Highways, i got 14.75, i think the FE is overhyped. With 5 people and luggage the car is sluggish you need to revv her more, there is no doubt that the IDSi City is underpowered and Honda acknowleges that and hence the next City wont have any IDSI but only Vtec.
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Old 13th September 2007, 22:55   #123
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Diamonds are a girls best friend,while the man....
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Old 13th September 2007, 22:58   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
the mileage i got of 10kmpl was with 100% AC, changing gears around 3000RPM and speeds of 120-130kmph, 5th gear at 70-80kmpl, the loweret i got was 10, the best i got was 11.6kmpl, considering the car is expected to give 16kmpl according to some mags and 27kmpl in Highways, i got 14.75,
well, you didnt drive in the conditions that these mags tested the FE.

You should only drive in straight line at a constant speed between 40-50 kph and in dry conditions.
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Old 13th September 2007, 23:43   #125
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Some of the petrol cars in India & their powers (1PS = 0.986HP):

Lancer: 87PS@ 5500rpm
Ikon: 70PS@5500rpm
Opel Astra: 75HP@5400rpm
Ambassador: 74HP@5000rpm
Logan 1.4: 75HP@5500rpm
Logan 1.6: 84.5HP@5500rpm
NHC: 78PS@5500rpm

If people don't find other cars underpowered, then why pick on NHC ?

From all the discussion, I find NHC underpowered in only one instance, that is drag racing. Anyway none of the cars are manufactured for drag racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
With 5 people and luggage the car is sluggish you need to revv her more, there is no doubt that the IDSi City is underpowered
Do you also conclude that Maruti acknowleges that Baleno steering was problem and hence in SX4 they replaced with EPS ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
and Honda acknowleges that and hence the next City wont have any IDSI but only Vtec.
Note: Isn't VTEC is activated only at high rpms? When people are happy with IDSI, who needs high rpms?

Last edited by diabloo : 13th September 2007 at 23:46.
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:11   #126
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diabloo - I asked you this before i am asking you this again, does Honda give you commission for every Ccity Sold Joking.

Quote:
If people don't find other cars underpowered, then why pick on NHC
Lancer: 87PS@ 5500rpm costs 7.5L OTR
Ikon: 70PS@5500rpm costs 5L OTR
Opel Astra: 75HP@5400rpm Extinct
Ambassador: 74HP@5000rpm 5L OTR
Logan 1.4: 75HP@5500rpm 5.4L OTR
Logan 1.6: 84.5HP@5500rpm 7L OTR
NHC: 78PS@5500rpm 8.4L OTR

Now you know why people find NHC underpowered, your comapring different segment cars, only Lancer is in the same segment, others are not, Lancer has fantastic handling & ride. It has moer power then NHC, doesnot feel underpowered, the NHC does, the NHC costs the most of the above is quite heavy, the Lancer weighs less then 1000kgs, the NHC weighs more then 1000kgs hence NHC has poor PTW of 73, even a Zen(old one) out runs the NHC.

The really competition of the NHC is : -

Optra 1.6 104PS - 8.4L OTR
NHC 77PS - 8.4L OTR
SX4 ZXi 102PS - 8.1L OTR
Ford Fiesta 1.6 100PS - 8L OTR
Verna 1.6 103 PS - 8L OTR
Tata Indigo Grand XL 100PS - 7L OTR even Tata's car is more powerful then Honda
Aveo 1.4 - 92PS - 6.5L OTR
Aveo 1.6 - 102PS - 7.5L OTR
Esteem 85PS - 5.0L OTR
Accent GLE - 94 PS - 5.5L OTR
Swift P 87PS - 5.0 OTR
Lancer Cedia 115PS - 9L OTR
Baleno (not sold anymore) 94 PS - 6.2L OTR

Now doesnot the NHC feel overpriced,
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:21   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Some of the petrol cars in India & their powers (1PS = 0.986HP):

Lancer: 87PS@ 5500rpm
Ikon: 70PS@5500rpm
Opel Astra: 75HP@5400rpm
Ambassador: 74HP@5000rpm
Logan 1.4: 75HP@5500rpm
Logan 1.6: 84.5HP@5500rpm
NHC: 78PS@5500rpm

If people don't find other cars underpowered, then why pick on NHC ?
Verna : 103.2
SX4 : 102
Fiesta :101
Accent:94
Aveo1.4/1.6:94/102 (all this fig.s are in BHP)
That's why..


BTW, 87 ps of lancer is still 9PS more then that of Honda City.Hey, I don't hate City, I think it's a very nice looking car, but cost and VFM wise it's not so nice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo
Ambassador: 74HP@5000rpm
BTW, you really wanted to compare Honda City with an Ambassador?



EDIT : Damn it Busa, you've beaten me in the post .

Last edited by kaushik_s : 14th September 2007 at 00:24.
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:22   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo
If people don't find other cars underpowered, then why pick on NHC ?
Look at their cost and segment segregation. You will know why.

Quote:
Do you also conclude that Maruti acknowleges that Baleno steering was problem and hence in SX4 they replaced with EPS ?
In case you are unaware EPS ran from time immemorial. It was there in the mpfi zen, then the alto, wagonR, swift. This trend was carried forward to the SX4. There could be a problem with the Baleno steering, there might be a possible solution to it too which the dealers haven't yet figured out? Either ways, I really don't see how this fits into the topic at discussion here?

Its a fact that Honda treats Indian's like its our duty to be overcharged for cars that are a lot different from what they are selling across the similar segments from other manufac's or when compared to international specs. Its also a fact that most find the Non-Vtec car underpowered. Let us not make our blind love for our cars over ride the facts.
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:23   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post

Do you also conclude that Maruti acknowleges that Baleno steering was problem and hence in SX4 they replaced with EPS ?
Correction there. the baleno never had any steering problems. The only reason why honda and MUL are going teh EPS way are because it is cheaper, more space saving and less complicated unlike teh hydraulic mechanism. EPS and hydraulic both have their advantages and disadvantages.
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:28   #130
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So you say only competition to NHC is Lancer. Lancer kerb weight is 1010Kg. NHC kerb weight is 1065Kg.

How can you compare Indigo with NHC?
0-100 figures for NHC & Indigo are 13.x odd & 19.x respectively . Whats the point in producing enormous BHP at engine and very less at the wheels?

Note: Honda doesn't give me anything. I am clearing the misconceptions about NHC.

EDIT: BUSA, some the prices you have mentioned are incorrect. Eg, Fiesta 1.6 is priced higher than NHC.

Last edited by diabloo : 14th September 2007 at 00:36.
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:32   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Correction there. the baleno never had any steering problems. The only reason why honda and MUL are going teh EPS way are because it is cheaper, more space saving and less complicated unlike teh hydraulic mechanism. EPS and hydraulic both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Viddy, baleno steering does have a small niggle. It makes that "katak" sound at times on hitting pot holes. Though I assure this is not such an major issue at all. Since this in no way affects driving or poses any bigger problems, some might find it annoying to hear the sound. And IMO I prefer the hydraulic power steering compared to the EPS that runs on the other cars. HPS on the baleno is really confidence inspiring during spirited driving.

Quote:
So you say only competition to NHC is Lancer
No, NHC has no competition when it comes to the pricing front .

Quote:
0-100 figures for NHC & Indigo are 13.x odd & 19.x respectively . Whats the point in producing enormous BHP at engine and very less at the wheels?
That is the legendary Honda technology for you. Sadly, most of which is being denied to the average Indian Joe.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 14th September 2007 at 00:38.
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:34   #132
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Saying Honda will replace IDSI with VTEC since IDSI was not good enough is like saying Maruti replaced Baleno's HPS with EPS in SX4, since HPS had serious issues.

Both are untrue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Correction there. the baleno never had any steering problems. The only reason why honda and MUL are going teh EPS way are because it is cheaper, more space saving and less complicated unlike teh hydraulic mechanism. EPS and hydraulic both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Last edited by diabloo : 14th September 2007 at 00:37.
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:35   #133
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Quote:
So you say only competition to NHC is Lancer. Lancer kerb weight is 1010Kg. NHC kerb weight is 1065Kg.
I said Lancer is the only competition in the list you gave.

Quote:
How can you compare Indigo with NHC?
The same way how you compared it with a Amby

Quote:
0-100 figures for NHC & Indigo are 13.x odd & 19.x respectively . Whats the point in producing enormous BHP at engine and very less at the wheels?
Please read carefully, i saif the Indigo Grand Petrol Engine with 100ps, not talking about the 70PS one, the Petrol 100PS reaches in around 13 secs FYI.
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:37   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
So you say only competition to NHC is Lancer. Lancer kerb weight is 1010Kg. NHC kerb weight is 1065Kg.
Huh, you've overlooked all the other competitions mate
What about the comprehensive list of cars that Busa has posted?
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Old 14th September 2007, 00:38   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Some of the petrol cars in India & their powers (1PS = 0.986HP):
Opel Astra: 75HP@5400rpm
Ambassador: 74HP@5000rpm
NHC: 78PS@5500rpm
If people don't find other cars underpowered, then why pick on NHC ?
Digged up the Astra and Ambi to prove a point?
Well, competition has moved on, as BUSA pointed out!

Let's have another angle: power to weight ratio:
City: 73 bhp/ton
SX4: 86 bhp/ton.
fiesta 1.6: 89 bhp/ton
Verna VTVT: 89 bhp/ton.

Clearly, power to weight is on the low side for the City. Which reflects performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
EDIT: BUSA, some the prices you have mentioned are incorrect. Eg, Fiesta 1.6 is priced higher than NHC.
Fiesta 1.6 Zxi- 7.24 (OTR delhi- ACI)
City ZX EXi- 7.38 (OTR Delhi- ACI)
City base is more than fiesta 1.6. Any comments?

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 14th September 2007 at 00:43.
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