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Old 20th July 2004, 02:16   #1
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Hi Guys,

I visited Automart and Maruti Truevalue outlets in West Delhi today to buy a small second hand car.

Maruti will obviously be having Marutis only in their showroom but even Automart had only Marutis and old Santros for display and on enquiry they told me that mostly these were the only cars in all automart outlets in Delhi.

Even in Marutis, both had only (and only) zen and 800's for sale . Automart guy " Sir, since initially Wagon-r's didn't sell much, so now there are not so many in second hand market and since the sales have now picked up so more and more people ask for it and they book it in advance." ok, but what about Alto ? " Sir , since Marutis reduced prices recently, people who bought the car earlier don't want to sell it for lower price ." Palio . " I wouldn't advise you buying a Palio for it's resale value ."

Now I actually went looking for a Palio / Wagon R / Alto so it was a big disappointment but whatever, it's time for asking prices.

98 model Zen 48 K km many dents visible 1,85,000

99 model zen 46 k km finishing done but some dents left ( as per sales guy "to keep authentic look" ) 2,05,000

2003 zen Lx 12k km 2,65,000

98 model M 800 about 50 k km 1,20,000

Santro 98/99 model 50 k km whole body visibly repainted ( not touched by automart yet) 1,95,000

The good part was salesman did try to understand my needs and gave his suggestions which were fine. 1 year/ 15k km warranty, 3 services free.


Now for true value. Salesman didn't bother to ask why or what kind of car I need. Cars , again only zen and M 800.

2001 zen 50 k km 2,52,000

others--prices quoted at least 20% higher than Automart and I didn't look any further.

Now all you Auto freaks, gimme your advise on these prices and which car should I go for .

Tarun
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Old 20th July 2004, 03:35   #2
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Hey Tarun. I think the 2003 Zen is an okay deal, but I really wouldn't spend more than 250000 for a second hand Zen, A new LX will cost around 360 on road in Pune, less in Delhi and there are plenty of freebies like insurance, registration and MGA accesories so you would be uncomfortably close to a price of a new Zen. Try to get him down a bit and 12k km sounds good to me. I believe there are hot deals on second hand Palios if you look hard enough, but I wouldnt know about Delhi.

I own a Zen and and if I had a choice now I would definitely go for the Palio. It's a safer and more robust car and this has to be the most important criteria for choosing a car. Just ignore the mileage and service support claims.

A friend of mine has an S10 and he has had very few problems on either end till now. The dif is mileage for city driving is not more than a couple of km. Remember it's a well built modern car, much safer than the Zen with a more advanced and powerful engine. So choose wisely. Take care.

Raul
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Old 23rd July 2004, 05:59   #3
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i had been to True Value in Goregoan Mumbai, they too didnt seem interested in selling a car. the prices were also high. My brother-inlaw wanted a small car for city drive, a 2001 alto was for 240000/- that too with 60k and other cars were also priced high, finally he went for a New Xing.
the EMI came out to be the similar, and he also got a 35000/- discount.
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Old 23rd July 2004, 11:30   #4
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The other aspect of looking at it is :

Will you buy a second hand with cash down payment or finance ?

If finance :

The interest rates for second hand cars ir pretty high and ranges from 15--16%, where as for a new car its 9-9.5%. So compare and check what amount you end up paying as per your loan term for second hand and new. If you end up more or less at the same level, i would advise for new.

In case its a cash deal, negotiate the price and pick the 2003 zen.


Tarun
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Old 23rd July 2004, 18:17   #5
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like the others said
if u want go for the 2003 zen but haggle.
also if u find a palio nothing like it.
its up to u not the salesman
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Old 23rd July 2004, 19:02   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (Tarun @ July 23 2004,10:00)]The interest rates for second hand cars ir pretty high and ranges from 15--16%, where as for a new car its 9-9.5%. So compare and check what amount you end up paying as per your loan term for second hand and new. If you end up more or less at the same level, i would advise for new.

Tarun
I found that over a three year period, a new Honda city Vtec on finance is Rs 50000 cheaper than a second hand one - taking extra running costs etc into the equation
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Old 24th July 2004, 02:16   #7
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Thanks for your suggestions guys. These second hand car people seem to be quoting too high prices and I may have to go for a new one rather. In another Automart showroom, found an Alto Vxi, 2002, 33k, 2.85 Lac (Wonder if they actually sell any) , Wagon R 2002, 50k, 2.85L.

Yes, after taking into consideration the difference in finace rates between new and old cars, it would make much more sense to buy a new one since it will cost the same.

Actually now, I would rather wait for the new look Palio (hope it comes out in Jan-feb 05) since I don't think there is another car like it in India.
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Old 16th November 2004, 18:53   #8
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the palio is a rocker of a car....has all the elements of a good european vehicle (which is an absolute contrast to what most indians look for)...the car drives well, is a treat on the highway and the doors shut with a thunk that inspires confidence...you might have to dabble with the tyres though...the high profile tyres that come as standard aren't ideal for handling....and body roll tends to get exxagerated....thats part of the indianisation of the car (to enhance ride quotient)...

the 2005 palio would come with better brakes though....the present ones feel terribly spongy (though they are reasonably effective)...lets hope they dont cut corners on brakes to keep a handle on the pricing....

i wouldnt suggest any other small car in the country...if you're looking for big car comfort, acceleration and handling nothign really compares....

the getz would be an alternative but then again....would you even want to be seen dead in a hyundai? GM might launch the daewoo kalos under the chevy brand ... that might be one to look out for...
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Old 16th November 2004, 19:01   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (maedi @ Nov. 16 2004,16:23)]the getz would be an alternative but then again....would you even want to be seen dead in a hyundai? *
Care to explain that buddy?
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Old 16th November 2004, 20:23   #10
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well its no use sellin of ur vehicle to true value. i went wid my esteem to see it and they say they dont take accidented cars though mine was repaired by the authorised dealer in mumbai ur bound to have dented ur car once and then other truevaluer give me a pretty low value and i sold the car 4 much more widout any party involved in the middle!!
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Old 17th November 2004, 01:25   #11
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well....with all due respect to hyundai i beileve they are middle of the road cars...they're built not for the enthusiast but for the middle aged, demi nouveau-riche masses that need to show they've arrived! *thats where india fits into their game plan so well... *(you have to udnerstnad that i'm extremely biased about hyundai also coz my loyalties lie with daewoo on the korean auto front)

they do a swell job at providing value...i must say they're giving the japs more than a run for their cash on that count but there is nothing appealing about their cars apart from the monetary sense it makes owning a hyuundai....they've got the indian market by the b***s and are raking in the moolah...hats off to them on that count....but none of their cars are for he enthusiast...let me give you reasons here....

all their cars come with excessively soft suspension; rampant body roll, they lack originality with design, have very avergae driver ergonomics, have nothing that an enthusiast woudl smile about....including the elantra mind you (their so called performance vehicle)....the sonata is a stolen design..half merc half jag, with a large engine and the worlds tech to make up a below average handling chasis...the getz is inspired by design cues from the daewoo kalos and matiz...(that said so is the santro xings new rear...try and see the matiz and xing parked next to each other you'll see what im talking about)...the new sonata is a mondeo graft....

if there is one car that is nice in their stable its the tiburon...apart from that, forget it....

CRDi tech gives them an edge but that too is heavily borrowed tech from Daimler Chrysler (who are no longer interested in them)

with the general havign taken over Daewoo....they're going to make an imprint on the asian markets and europe like never before...daeowoo is alrady their biggest exoprter with over 8lakh cars/month....the spark vs the xing would be an interesting battle...the chevy aveo would take the getz out....the S3X (its the hottest SUV ive seen in a while) should shake the tuscon market up....the optra is anyway doing better than the elantra...despite the CRDi tag to its acclaim (petrol sales are roughly 10% is what ive been given to believe)...i believe that hyundai in india is gonig to face the same problem that plagued maruti....no one would want to look at it over a period of time for their exp cars...buy it cheap, run it cheap and the shopkeepers of the world unite in your hyundais....

if hyundai beieves they can pip toyota to the worlds no2 slot by 2017 they're mistaken...agreed they're improving their cars but the general is blowing his ship-horn whistle announcing his arrival and honda/toyota are not gong to relinquish their posts easily...
china is one country that will *never* buy korean products, wonder why we do , read your history books for details...amd so hyundai would never make the imprint they intend on making....

thats all for now ... i know there are several ppl out here who love their hyundais, am not asking you not to...they're committed to the indian market ... and i've lsited the reasons out before this...its just that there is a whole world of cars out there...myopia wont help....

Gautham Gauruv Maediratta
+91-98455-dosco
gautham@maediratta.com



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Old 17th November 2004, 02:09   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (maedi @ Nov. 16 2004,22:55)]CRDi tech gives them an edge but that too is heavily borrowed tech from Daimler Chrysler
Well this is not a wierd case....the Corvettes engine is used in so many other sportscars, Ford engines, Audi engines, are used in other cars...!! There is nothing wrong in borrowing a technology unless and untill you dont copy or steal it..I dont find anything wrong with the CRDi technology/engine borrowed from Daimler Chrysler.!!
I guess...people who hate Hyundai..wanna put some really unreasonable reasons to let it down unnecessarily!!



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Old 17th November 2004, 14:06   #13
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well maedi,

i ownned a santro for 3 years and i agree with all ur views on why hyundai cars will never appeal to a enthusiast. everything u say about the cars including the suspension, body roll , ergonomics is true..but dont forget what hyundai gave the indian car buying public with the santro was comfort and peace of mind with an outstanding after sales service. that helped them get a foothold in the indian market...and from then on they have never looked back.

true the enthusiast will never enjoy a hyundai car but then in a market like a India how many enthusiasts drivers do we have ...abt a 1000+ here and add some more...people need comfort , peace of mind and well priced cars - hyundai gives it to them and its not that they dont improve their products..Abs is offered on the santro ..i think it was the first small car to offer this technology.

and regarding the crdi technology (borrowing from merc - i wud say getting inspired) - whats wrong if hyundai saw the potential of pushing through the CRDI first in India ..they had the foresight which bigger companies didnt have..see tata still thinking of getting a CRDI engine for the safari. I would say is it sour grapes that hyundai is reaping benefits from the CRDI technology here before any other big car maker could ?

I think Hyundai has done a wonderful job in India - with the santro and the CRDI and the A.S.S *,forget all other cars -accent, sonata , terracan i care 2 hoots but one thing ....I salute Hyundai for being so pro-active in a market like India where a decade old zen sells at *a higher price than the new generation suzuki alto !!

cheers
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Old 18th November 2004, 15:51   #14
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what i have said is that CRDi is not their own tech....and that very little that they offer is really thiers...there is nothing wrong with that but its jsut that everything about hyundai is just a notch above industry average and not the cutting edge angle that they project...

i had mentioned that they have shown commitment to the indian market and are the most profitable car maker in the country today...and no one can take that away from them....i agree that they have shown phenomenal cust care and post sales service et al...i am not saying that they are a bad company....they have read and understood the market conditions really well and have taken the fight to the japs/ford/GM....which has been great for the indian consumer....all im saying is their cars arent for enthusiasts... (deep down i respect and thank them for the fight they put up....oops did i say that out loud

and yeah....i dont like hyundai for several reasons, and to be frank....one prime reason is the matiz being a better car (but with less indianisation and committment to the indian market) was taken out by the santro that did nothing mroe than it was required to do....all the santro did was satisfy the basic motoring needs combined with peace of ownership and it clicked with the indian consumer...i

lastly, deep down i know that hyundai would do well...and knwo that their cars are cars you cant go wrong with...but the mass appeal that they have with ppl with average motoring demands irritates me...

im new to team-bhp and enjoy this jazz....lets keep at it! change topic anyone?

maedi
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Old 18th November 2004, 16:40   #15
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Maedi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]and yeah....i dont like hyundai for several reasons, and to be frank....one prime reason is the matiz being a better car (but with less indianisation and committment to the indian market) was taken out by the santro that did nothing mroe than it was required to do....all the santro did was satisfy the basic motoring needs combined with peace of ownership and it clicked with the indian consumer..
Pal, that no reason to hate hyundai - just becoz u love the matiz !


and i cant understand why u cant digest the fact that Hyundai kept things simple and straight with the santro....satisfied the basic motoring needs with great A.S.S and peace of ownership ...thats what every customer looks for when he buys a car rite ?? or does a customer buy a car from a company that shuts down operations and gives attacks to its customers ??

i liked the matiz a lot .....had it in the family..but u just have to agree that hyundai got it spot on with the santro..and they are still caring for it ...

and for people with more demanding stuff..u have the ford and honda churning out the Vtec's and the josh machine !!

cheers
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