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Old 20th September 2007, 14:51   #16
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I watched that Autocar video some two months ago on Youtube.
But, the Overdrive DVD had some useful F1 info in it.
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Originally Posted by Sam
Lastly - you pay 1$ for an Autocar in India. Somebody has to pay for the cost of printing the magazine, the distribution, the salaries of the staff, the petrol for the research and the other million things that go into bringing the magazine to you.
This month's mag cost me Rs.100=$2.2. Doesn't make a big difference.
But for that extra money, all I get is ads.
One thing I can tell is that autocar hit the motherload this month.
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It would not be right to discuss such figures here. Most advertisers pay a confidential rate to advertise in any magazine.
I comprehend from this that the rate isn't constant with everybody.
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Old 20th September 2007, 14:56   #17
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I do not disrespect or disregard your observation there Hussain.
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Again, I'd like to add that I respect your observation
The respect is reciprocated.I have read your 'yeti' blog.Great writing skill.

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As an advertiser in both these magazines I have an equal and opposite argument to offer.
I take it that you advertiser in the autocarindia.Let me tell you what my team does 'as a matter of foundation' whilst evaluating any organisation.We study the interests of the end consumer and how well their interests are maintained by the corporate.Perhaps all the advertisers,editorial staff,testdrivers yada yada would not exist if it were not for the end reader.

So then we agree that the end reader is the, I repeat, the most important part of the car magazines.Is the interest of this crucial component maintained when there are more commercials than content?Lest we forget,remember that its the reader who you are targeting.And he (or she) should be kept the happiest.Let us put up a poll here (mods?) and watch whether readers are happy with a shocking 57% in commercials.

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It is wrong to use an anniversary issue (any magazine) as a benchmark to draw a conclusion. Anniversary issues are a big deal to any magazine and the staff are instructed to generate as much revenue as possible for this once in a year issue.
The magazine attained its multiple anniversary only due to the readers.This exacting line of thought must be upheld (without exception) during anniversary issues too.

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Lastly - you pay 1$ for an Autocar in India. Would you be willing to pay 10$ for an auto magazine like the rest of the world does?
With very few exceptions,no one actually pays $10 for a car magazine.In the UK one may get annual subscriptions or 12 magazines for Pound 25 to 30.In Italy,Euro 20 and in the states $15. This is a fruitless discussion as another poster has already pointed out.

Its only a matter of how big your stomach is.Ponder on this = if a readers interest is not upheld in quantity,would it be so in quality?Just when was the last time you read a BADDD review on any car in our beloved car journals?We can debate endlessly and mindlessly on this but this gives a clear indication of the publications priorities to me.

These statistics have convinced me that the best place to keep these prostitutional magazines is in the bathroom (potty reading)
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Old 20th September 2007, 14:57   #18
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
I do not disrespect or disregard your observation there Hussain. As an advertiser in both these magazines I have an equal and opposite argument to offer.

It is wrong to use an anniversary issue (any magazine) as a benchmark to draw a conclusion. Anniversary issues are a big deal to any magazine and the staff are instructed to generate as much revenue as possible for this once in a year issue.

The magazine, per se, is absolutely full of ads as you rightly pointed out - but there is also a lot of content (DVDs, pull outs calenders and what not) that you get free with it.

While these too may be sponsored, they are a source of entertainment and education too for the reader.

Auto magazines and lifestyle magazines and gadget magazines have one thing in common. It can be fun to see the ads. It is as much fun to see an Audi ad in autocar, as it is to see a loius vuitton ad in Verve or Elle or an Apple ad in T3.
These are themed magazines with a narrow spectrum of readers with a common interest.

The same cannot be said of an atta ad in India Today. There is no theme.

Lastly - you pay 1$ for an Autocar in India. Somebody has to pay for the cost of printing the magazine, the distribution, the salaries of the staff, the petrol for the research and the other million things that go into bringing the magazine to you.

Would you be willing to pay 10$ for an auto magazine like the rest of the world does?

Again, I'd like to add that I respect your observation, but there is always another side to the story.
Sam, as much as I respect your views about various topics, I am afraid I have to disagree here. We do enjoy ads related to anything concerning automobiles. But there is a fine line between interesting and overload. This particular issue might as well be called 'AutoAds'.

You are well travelled, articulate and a whole lot more worldly wise than I am. I have never bought a car mag for $10 and am not about to do so. Yes, it is a figure of speech, but pray, which VFM-obsessed Indian would pay even $5 for a car magazine? Back in my college days, 4 of us used to pool in to buy the 'F1 Racing' mag for 200 bucks.

Many thanks for giving us the other side of the story. Most people would be happy to look at it only from their point of view.
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Old 20th September 2007, 15:08   #19
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Actually I'm not saying that it's OK to have a magazine full of ads. Say one thing and everyones blood turns to gasoline. Sheesh, this is what comes of associating with a bunch of annoyingly car-crazy people. Pah.

I'm merely saying, take a moment to see the other side. That's all I am saying.

I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm of one the the guys that clutters up your reading material!
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prostitutional bathroom potty
Your mum is gonna wash your mouth with soap for this. lol.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 20th September 2007 at 15:13.
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Old 20th September 2007, 15:32   #20
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Sheesh, this is what comes of associating with a bunch of annoyingly car-crazy people. Pah.

I'm merely saying, take a moment to see the other side. That's all I am saying.
Sam, is it really about being a car-crazy bunch? Lets look at it this way. Lets say these people are all lying. They actually have wet dreams about all those sexy ads in the ACI. But then is that the issue here? I think what gets the goat for all these people here (and me as well) is that,

* They advertise their special anniversery issue and how you should not miss it at any cost as if they are talking about the saviour himself.
* Then they say you will pay 60% extra over the regular mag price as it is this same 'The Anniversery' issue we are talking about. So how can you but not pay the premium for being allowed to partake this blessing from the heavens. Obviously!
* They promise the earth and the moon in the name of content.

After all this what does the reader ultimately gets on shelling out the precious 100 bucks? A magazine whose cover unfolds a zillion times with glitzy ads (ok, I am catching a little of your bimari to exaggerate, I guess ), 65% of its pages have paid advertisements. In short huge money spinner for the mag. No issues there. However why was the reader made to pay for that ad laden money spinner (for the publication) of an issue? Thats the crux of the problem.

Here is another similar issue. There is a long pending demand from various quarters that while ads are fine for all those free to air TV channels (in fact they are better entertainment than the crap programs they most often dish out) the paid ones should not be allowed to carry any ads on them as is the world practice. Very true. If I am paying for the airtime then I should have some amount of say.
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Old 20th September 2007, 15:41   #21
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Originally Posted by Hussain View Post
These statistics have convinced me that the best place to keep these prostitutional magazines is in the bathroom (potty reading)
I do that !! I do that !! I do that !!

On a more serious note, ACI has gone bonkers this month - 57 % Adverts !!!! I used to love their magazine but this time after seeing the size of OD as well I thought I'd buy it. Its actually got more car content than ACI. Better also !!

@ Sam - What Sam says is also correct in a way. If there is a certain revenue being collected by these mags then why not !!
Let us just forget this months anniversary issues. Come to a normal months issue - ACI Still has a huge percentage of ads ( 30 - 40 % ). This is rdidiculous - what they should do is they should increase the number of pages in that case.

Also when I buy a Magazine in the UK - It is around 5 Pounds ( 400 rupees ) - What I get in that is more than 400 pages of actual reading stuff ( not including any ads ) - also freebies worth more than the money I paid ( I once got a Pair of Puma Shoes - For Heavens Sake !! )

It is also not fair comparing Indian Mags & International Mags - they have way more money to spend than our Indian Magazine Counterparts.

So in all fairness I would certainly think that the Indian Mags are just ripping us off by giving more and more ads - ACI should be classified as Automobile Yellow Pages - Thats It.

I think I should stick only to T-BHP for all automotive related stuff. Should just stp buying these stupid advert mags. For Potty reading I should stick to good ole Feminas / Stardusts etc.
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Old 20th September 2007, 15:43   #22
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
No offence, but I still cannot digest that we have to pay more to see more ads.
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Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
Now that would not hurt so much if the magazine cost the same. BUT, here we have a situation where they raise the cost of the magazine by a good 65% and provide no additional value for that amount!
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
65% of its pages have paid advertisements. In short huge money spinner for the mag. No issues there. However why was the reader made to pay for that ad laden money spinner (for the publication) of an issue? Thats the crux of the problem.
I agree with you. If the only addition to a magazine is its number of advertisements (thereby making it a thicker issue) then I do not think the reader should pay more for it.
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IFor Potty reading I should stick to good ole Feminas / Stardusts etc.
Doesn't anyone read Penthouse anymore?

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 20th September 2007 at 15:45.
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Old 20th September 2007, 15:47   #23
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I would like to add, they are doing so many adverts = huge amount of revenue for them but then they should not increase the price of the mag by 40 bucks, instead dish out all your adverts but keep the price at Rs. 60, they want to have their cake and eat it too
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Old 20th September 2007, 15:52   #24
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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Good analysis in there Hussain. 57% of advertisements is something and atleast 5% in the content is: Direct lifted material (Plagiarism from Autocar India?)
What makes you think Karl's article is the only one that was filched by Autocar? For instance, the part that wasnt a direct lift from Karl was a direct lift from other sources - I'm referring to the Standard 2000 section in the same article.
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Old 20th September 2007, 15:58   #25
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Doesn't anyone read Penthouse anymore?
Sam Bhai - I am married. I don know what the wifey's reaction would be like if I do that - I don wanna know either !!

@ BUSA - . They should keep the same price. After all they are making way more revenue than the normal months - Looks Like Our Famed Editors want to actually own some of those beauties fast ( Lambos, Brabus Mercs & Porsches ), like some of their friends do !!!
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Old 20th September 2007, 16:06   #26
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What makes you think Karl's article is the only one that was filched by Autocar? For instance, the part that wasnt a direct lift from Karl was a direct lift from other sources - I'm referring to the Standard 2000 section in the same article.
I didn't say it is only Karl's article that is a direct lift. Stanher's contribution to Austin Rover club is also lifted. There's more to it, who knows? Mebbe something you scribbled on a piece of paper and threw could also be lifted and pasted .
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Old 20th September 2007, 16:15   #27
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Even I fell to the marketing c**p. Over 450 pages mega issue. I picked up both overdrive and Autocar! Ends up like an ad-agency brochure!

Top gear anniversary had a much much better approach. They had some nice articles (about those supercars were bought to India!!!) and its that extra content that makes anniversary issue special than ads ads and more ads.

One thing I did find out is that there are more car speakers brands than soap brands. So many sprung up in such a short span of time!.

In general, although we have the talent to make good magazines, it is this opportunist attitude of management which clearly differentiates the magazines that we get abroad to the magazines here (cost is nearly the same these days!) I wish we get some more magazines. Competition is the only way for this to change.
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Old 20th September 2007, 16:20   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
I do not disrespect or disregard your observation there Hussain. As an advertiser in both these magazines I have an equal and opposite argument to offer.

It is wrong to use an anniversary issue (any magazine) as a benchmark to draw a conclusion. Anniversary issues are a big deal to any magazine and the staff are instructed to generate as much revenue as possible for this once in a year issue.

The magazine, per se, is absolutely full of ads as you rightly pointed out - but there is also a lot of content (DVDs, pull outs calenders and what not) that you get free with it.

While these too may be sponsored, they are a source of entertainment and education too for the reader.

Auto magazines and lifestyle magazines and gadget magazines have one thing in common. It can be fun to see the ads. It is as much fun to see an Audi ad in autocar, as it is to see a loius vuitton ad in Verve or Elle or an Apple ad in T3.
These are themed magazines with a narrow spectrum of readers with a common interest.

The same cannot be said of an atta ad in India Today. There is no theme.

Lastly - you pay 1$ for an Autocar in India. Somebody has to pay for the cost of printing the magazine, the distribution, the salaries of the staff, the petrol for the research and the other million things that go into bringing the magazine to you.

Would you be willing to pay 10$ for an auto magazine like the rest of the world does?

Again, I'd like to add that I respect your observation, but there is always another side to the story.
I agree with Mr.SK,(a tad smarter than the Sharu)
but............As they increase the no. copies they should be able to lessen the ad content but this isnt happening with Auto Car , They say that they are continuously expanding from one place to another in need of more space .
Increase in sales of issues should account for part of that need for space even then there is no slowing down in the ad section .
If you refer to an issue back in 2000,when you flip to the last section you can see about 10 pages purely for adds ( before the price section but now that same section takes a hell a lot of time just to glance through . )

I respect auto car for the quality of material and the lay out of information, for the same reason I have been buying every issue since 1999 but lately frustration has slowly started creeping in , Ads are a bit too much.

They should atleast avoid that in between the road test section.It may be placed say at an interval of 5-6 pages . So correspondingly a 10-20% ad is digestable but 40%+ is seriously not the way to go.


And coming back to DVD , the Super car section was great but the comparison of B segment sports Category was very disappointing. By the way that LAmbo exhaust note is awesome !!!!
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Old 20th September 2007, 18:42   #29
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Being a marketing fella, I agree with Sam.

But.....As a consumer, assume I buy a JBL product and there is a sticker in the box. From the company point of view, it is publicity, so it should bear all the expenses. No matter how much the consumer likes those stickers, the company should not ask the consumer to pay some amount for the sticker.

Similarly, the magazine or the advertiser should bear the printing expenses of all the extra pages. Even if it is educating me, I wouldn't like to pay for it - simply because I am already doing my part (favor?) by reading the advertisement, just like I did by sticking the sticker. No company can ask for more than that from a consumer.

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Old 20th September 2007, 19:25   #30
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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Mebbe something you scribbled on a piece of paper and threw could also be lifted and pasted .
Watch out - your post could be published in the next anniversary edition!!!
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