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Old 24th September 2007, 11:46   #16
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phamilyman, I understand your concern but its not fair to blame the automanufacturers alone. IMHO, the fault lies with both; the car buyer AND the car manufacturer. If there was a demand for a profitable add-on, dont you think every car manufacturer would offer the same?

Unfortunately in our country, implementation by compulsion is the best way to get things done. Remember the seat belts rule? How many people actually wore their seat belts before that? That said, ABS + Airbags should surely be on the next "must have" rule from the authorities.
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Old 24th September 2007, 14:06   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
How about auto-tensioning seatbelts? Fitted to any Indian car? Do you get them even on imports? Would, say, a Honda Accord have them? Civic? Ford? They would in UK, I'm pretty sure.

Total waste of money, though --- when nobody wears the belt anyway!

I thought all seat belts nowadays were auto tensioning ? You mean that when you break suddenly or as you go faster the belts tighten and hold you better so as to avoid being thrown forward during sudden breaking.

Or are you talking about pre-tensioning seat belts? The ones with sensors. It is available in the Civic and Accord in India.
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Old 24th September 2007, 14:30   #18
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The problem is that lives lost in India are considered negligible. Such is the irony our huge population number entails.

Obviously the easiest way to force mfrs to provide airbags is to mandate it. Then as Thad E Ginathom rightly pointed out:

* Since no one wears seat-belts, the airbags will anyway not deploy during an accident.

* Occupants will die/get maimed because of that.

* Then, this "useless reputation" of airbags will start circulating among the masses and dealerships.

* New buyers will then be fed this broiler crap by dealerships abt the "airbags being waste and an unnecessary expense since they never open"

* Dealerships will then sell a non-airbag model to the customer, on which, they ostensibly make a higher profit margin.


I think to ensure seat belts are used as a precursor to airbags working, cars should not start in the first place if atleast the driver's seatbelt isn't worn.
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Old 24th September 2007, 14:50   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csentil View Post
Or are you talking about pre-tensioning seat belts? The ones with sensors. It is available in the Civic and Accord in India.
Yes, I think I have my technical terms confused. I mean the ones that hold you tighter in an accident. I think they have explosive charge mechanisms. You can read about them in the Swift manual, but I don't think you'll find them on an Indian Swift.

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* Since no one wears seat-belts, the airbags will anyway not deploy during an accident.
I don't think that the airbag deployment is dependent on the seat belt being used, is it? Maybe it is and I never heard about that mechanism.

Anyway, without a seat belt, the driver will already be on the way to meet the bag, and those burns, etc, may be worse.

The rest of your logic seems tragically accurate. If what I describe happens, then it will be worse: they will get the reputation of being actually dangerous!

Although seat-belt use has been compulsory in UK for decades, and compliance must be approaching 100%, you will still come accross people who argue that it is safer not to wear a belt, or that they feel unreasonably restricted.

It's bad enough with the drivers. Consider the huge number of non-drivers who have never thought much about cars, the dynamics of an accident, read any motoring articles or seen any motoring program on TV (Can we believe it --- that some people are just not interested?-) ).
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Old 24th September 2007, 15:31   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
* Since no one wears seat-belts, the airbags will anyway not deploy during an accident.
OT: Not correct. Deployment of airbags do not depend on the wearing of seatbelts. Only thing is, the airbags won't be that efficient if seat belts are not worn. This is because seat belts hold the driver/passenger in their position and airbags will be more effective in this case.

Coming to the post, I seriously think the govt should make airbags mandatory. That's the only way people will buy cars with airbags and manufactures will sell cars with airbags. I think Maruti-Suzuki needs to appreciated in this aspect. Atleast, they are the only comp to have airbag atleast as an option in almost all models.
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Old 24th September 2007, 15:34   #21
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I stand corrected if seat belts and airbags are not interdependant
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Old 24th September 2007, 21:25   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balaji_n29 View Post
OT: Not correct. Deployment of airbags do not depend on the wearing of seatbelts. Only thing is, the airbags won't be that efficient if seat belts are not worn. This is because seat belts hold the driver/passenger in their position and airbags will be more effective in this case.
Swift manual says airbags will not function if the driver is not wearing the seat belt.
Somewhere in the forum, recently there was a thread where experts confirmed on that with all cars. also the meaning of SRS in 'SRS air bag'
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Old 24th September 2007, 21:41   #23
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I'm hopelessly confused!
Sometimes I'm told it's the government that's the culprit with all their levies and at other times I'm told it's the car manufacturers.
Someone please help!
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Old 24th September 2007, 21:43   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyamhegde View Post
Swift manual says airbags will not function if the driver is not wearing the seat belt.
Somewhere in the forum, recently there was a thread where experts confirmed on that with all cars. also the meaning of SRS in 'SRS air bag'
Yes, not only seatbelts, also that head restraints need to be in place.
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Old 24th September 2007, 21:44   #25
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Quote:
Although seat-belt use has been compulsory in UK for decades, and compliance must be approaching 100%, you will still come accross people who argue that it is safer not to wear a belt, or that they feel unreasonably restricted.
Taxi drivers in UK are allowed to drive without wearing seatbelts! The reason, they can quickly leave vehicles if attacked by robber inside vehicle. It is stated that a taxi driver is more likely to face an attack than accident!

Back to the topic, SRS Airbags are exactly the name states, Supplemental Restraint System - adjunct to seatbelts (with pretensioner) which are Primary Restraint System in case of any crash.

I glanced thru Wikipedia and found that actual algorithms when airbag will be deployed is considered trade secret and is not released to public.
It may be possible that since SRS airbags are secondary, they may not be deployed if seat belts (primary restraint) do not sense crash.

So, better safe than sorry - wear seat belts always!

PS: Pray to God that you never need to be in a situation to see how your car's airbag works!

Last edited by sbasak : 24th September 2007 at 21:45.
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Old 24th September 2007, 21:52   #26
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i think its an agreed fact that AIRBAGS cost a tidy sum justly bcos so much of research has gone into it

similarly, one cant blame todays consumers to ask for such features by saying that " the same consumer never wears seatbelts or never asked for it earlier etc etc... "

with our road infrastructure improving and avg speeds increasing in the highways, its actually better to have features like airbags and ABS...

hence manufacturers shud probably ATLEAST have these as options in their vehicles...( the argument that since there are no takers and hence there is no point in providing this as an option is not correct - bcos providing it as an option is not going to cost the manufacturer too much and most cars sold in india would probably be capable of having such features built into them )

hence -

a) manufacturers SHOULD offer these features as an option - let the buyer who values safety buy it

b) govt on its part may probably consider some sort of incentives to manufacturers OR customers who pay that extra buck and invest in safety equipment -

c) such features can probably become part of road safety education that traffic police does ( not sure how much of this is done but they sure have a budget for it )
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Old 24th September 2007, 22:36   #27
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If I whiter on about UK, it is because it is the only other country I know anything about. Not because I am advertising it, although we can say it is ahead in some of the 'lessons' we're talking about here.

But, as a quick roundup of the situation there: seatbelts are compulsory, front and back except for certain exempted drivers. ABS is not compulsory, nor are airbags --- and, unless things have changed on that in the last couple of years, they are likely to remain options only.

Anyone know any country where they are compulsory?

In the light of the conversation we are having here, I was very interested to see a large ad in the newspaper today from Hyundai, shouting that its cars meet both European and American safety regulations!

Its interesting that they think this is worthwhile use of their ad budget: they must think that somebody cares!
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Old 28th September 2007, 18:58   #28
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In the USA - front passenger and driver airbags are compulsory , ABS is not - and I believe recently they made it mandatory to have have side impact curtains - will have to check that. However most rental companies will typically have ABS also fitted in the car.
All children below a certain height criteria must be placed in rear facing car seats or "booster seats" - and always in the rear seats of the car
In fact while the car is in motion - the child must remain in the seat - otherwise you are liable to get a ticket
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Old 28th September 2007, 19:51   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikrantw1 View Post
All children below a certain height criteria must be placed in rear facing car seats or "booster seats" - and always in the rear seats of the car
Which state might that be that wants rear FACING seats for children?
Child seats will do; AND they are always strapped on to a rear seat.
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Old 28th September 2007, 19:55   #30
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What some cars have is that the passenger side airbag will not work if there is no one sitting there. I think the Passat has it.
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