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Old 5th September 2008, 21:37   #31
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A good move in the right direction. We need better fuel efficient cars and people who are interested, can use this one of the parameter before short listing their cars/ models.
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Old 5th September 2008, 22:26   #32
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This FE figures will make sense only if they are measured in standard driving conditions. My car can give me 9 Kmpl to 19 Kmpl depending upon the change in driving conditions. But normally a marketing company like Hyundai will boast with the figure of 19 Kmpl, as in this example.
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Old 6th September 2008, 12:05   #33
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Great news! The ARAI needs to do everything it can to ensure that the mileage certification is reliable. For that, it needs to test cars in real-life conditions and avoid pressure / under-the-table-activities from manufacturers. No two sides to that, else these numbers will lose credibility. Classic "doodh ka doodh, paani ka paani" coming up. There is a lot to learn from the American EPA standards.

Related threads :

1 (60% of cars fail proposed fuel-efficiency norms?)

2 (Does India need fuel efficiency standards?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
This FE figures will make sense only if they are measured in standard driving conditions. My car can give me 9 Kmpl to 19 Kmpl depending upon the change in driving conditions.
Presumably, they will test cars in the same conditions. Thus the numbers will be relative only to each other i.e. if car A was more FE than car B in their tests, the same will be applicable to your driving conditions too. Irrespective of what the actual numbers are.
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Old 6th September 2008, 13:19   #34
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Already reported by me earlier...noone would believe it then

Mods pls merge.
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Old 26th December 2008, 12:25   #35
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Default Car makers can't fool you over mileage !!

Please see the following link for an article on FE :
Car makers cannot fool you over mileage
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Old 26th December 2008, 12:29   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emkay456 View Post
Please see the following link for an article on FE :
Car makers cannot fool you over mileage
Great move. Given that FE is a major crowd puller and most of the regular junta get fooled by the "standard test conditions" clause, this would bring some justice.

So is the A-Star FE figures true ? But manufacturers will try and come up with some alternatives I guess.
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Old 26th December 2008, 13:40   #37
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I was not able to open the page fast, so putting up the article here.
@mods: If not allowed, take appropriate action.

As per the move, Maruti A-star is 19.5kmpl. This is certainly not that realistic FE.
What are the standards for testing ? How much payload, wind conditions, quality of fuel, etc. are not specified. Nobody can replicate wind conditions atleast, so slightly the testing condition can vary, but what about payload at the time of testing ?

Is this test done under a fixed load and the car is driven at a constant speed of 60 kmph or 80 kmph ? We need more clarifications on this.

This will not be very useful to customer as the traffic conditions and driving habits can do a lot to change the figure. I am afraid that this would lead to more confusion and dis-satisfaction from customers. We are ourselves surprised at 19.5 from A-star. And we know the salespersons who would boost about the FE and the customers, who , in India are not at all that advanced.

Quote:
The auto manufacturers would no more be able to dupe customers with hyperbolic claims of fuel efficiency, as they have to put labels citing the actual mileage and emission norms on the vehicles.

Independent bodies like the Automotive Research Association of India (ARAI), Vehicle Research and Development Establishment, Central Institute of Road Transport and International Centre for Automotive Technology would certify the mileage of both cars and two-wheelers in actual road conditions.

Earlier, the automobile manufacturers used to calculate the fuel efficiency in test conditions, which was inconsistent with that on the road. Many public interest litigations were filed against the automakers for duping customers by making false claims over fuel efficiency.

As the apex industry body, the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM) will drive the initiative of having unbiased mileage figures on every single vehicle manufactured in India."The consumer-oriented move will be starting from January 1, 2009 and by March 31 all the auto-companies will roll out their vehicles with 'certified fuel efficiency' labels on the vehicles," SIAM Director General Delip Chenoy said.

As of now, the auto manufacturer does not make the certified mileage by an authorized agency public. "The move will help curb false fuel efficiency claims," said a SIAM official.

Maruti Suzuki India could become the first company to disclose fuel efficiency of its cars. Industry sources said the company has got tested 12 models for fuel efficiency. It has already announced the mileage of its latest model A-Star, with a fuel efficiency rate of 19.59 Km per litre as certified by ARAI.

Rajiv Kakria, a media professional said, "It is a good move. Fuel quality should also be put through rigorous checks as it drastically affects mileage."
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Old 26th December 2008, 21:06   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Agey View Post
...the figure will only be indicative in nature and companies can’t be taken to task if the product fails to deliver the mileage claimed...
there's the loophole!
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Old 26th December 2008, 21:36   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
there's the loophole!
How is it a loop hole.
One cant expect the same mileage all the time.
There's traffic, there is driving style which differs all the time. So the manufacturers cant be penalized.
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Old 26th December 2008, 22:12   #40
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Default A very good move!

This is good news and will save a lot of speculation on the all important FE.

However, the FE figures given out will be more like guidelines and not set in stone.

I hope they give out comprehensive FE figures on tests done on roads where the road and traffic conditions (good or bad) remain fairly constant over time and comparable.

Well, lets see what actually happens.
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Old 27th December 2008, 11:59   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I was not able to open the page fast, so putting up the article here.
@mods: If not allowed, take appropriate action.

As per the move, Maruti A-star is 19.5kmpl. This is certainly not that realistic FE.
What are the standards for testing ? How much payload, wind conditions, quality of fuel, etc. are not specified. Nobody can replicate wind conditions atleast, so slightly the testing condition can vary, but what about payload at the time of testing ?

Is this test done under a fixed load and the car is driven at a constant speed of 60 kmph or 80 kmph ? We need more clarifications on this.

This will not be very useful to customer as the traffic conditions and driving habits can do a lot to change the figure. I am afraid that this would lead to more confusion and dis-satisfaction from customers. We are ourselves surprised at 19.5 from A-star. And we know the salespersons who would boost about the FE and the customers, who , in India are not at all that advanced.
Actual efficiency is not aim of this test, because it defers person to person.one might be driving a lot in traffic and another might be on highway. driving habits also change efficiency a lot .....

They have a standard testing pattern for all cars so you can compare the efficiency no need to believe that you will get the same mileage because its impossible to predict the efficiency of any car for a particular owner.

Last edited by Rahulkool : 27th December 2008 at 12:01.
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Old 27th December 2008, 12:49   #42
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Here's a suggestions for the various magazines or ARAI... How about measuring mileage while conducting the standard performance tests (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, in gear acceleration timings, and perhaps lap-times around a circuit somewhere). They could run each of the tests 5 times to get the best time, and at the same time get a mileage reading indicating how efficient the car is when you're driving its wheels off.

It would be a good number to see in contrast with the efficiency figures returned from the "ideal conditions" test. In effect, we, as consumers, could get an idea of the complete range of fuel efficiency that can be expected from the vehicle.
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Old 30th December 2008, 08:49   #43
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Default Finally fuel efficiency norms to be standardized

BEE gets to set fuel efficiency norms - Home - livemint.com

The efficiency guage picture does not appear in the website, but for petroel vehicles (kmpl)
* - <=10
** - 10.1-12.5
*** - 12.6 - 16.8
**** - 16.9 - 25.5
***** - >=25.6
Diesel (kmpl)
* - <=8.75
** - 8.84-10.94
*** - 11.03-14.7
**** - 14.79-22.32
***** - >=22.41 ( i know there are a few dead zones in between!)
There is a similar chart for CNG as well..


BEE gets to set fuel efficiency norms

These fuel efficiency norms will be similar to the current pollution norms for vehicles without which they cannot be sold in the market

Padmaoarna Ghosh

New Delhi: The Union government has finally empowered the Bureau of Energy Efficiency (BEE) to set fuel efficiency standards for the country’s automobile industry, putting an end to a turf war between two ministries.
If BEE, a statutory body under the ministry of power, sticks to its original plans, consumers could see, within a few months, voluntary labels on vehicles that give mileage details. Mandatory standards are expected to be imposed by 2010.

These fuel efficiency norms will be similar to the current pollution norms for vehicles without which they cannot be sold in the market.
“This (dispute) has been going on for a while, but thanks to consumer interest and pressure, media coverage and interest by leaders, norms will hopefully soon be notified,” said a power ministry official who didn’t want to be identified.

The move, which had been initiated back in 2007 (Mint reported it on 15 August 2007) by the government, is yet to take effect because the ministries of road transport and highways, and heavy industry and public enterprises, didn’t agree, as reported by Mint on 19 July.

Besides, there were conflicts over the legislation for notifying these norms, the agency that will set the standards and how they will be monitored. Finally, the matter was referred to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the law ministry.

After a series of inter-ministerial meetings last week, it was decided that BEE’s methodology of prescribing norms will be followed.

The details of the legislative changes are still being discussed.

“The Prime Minister’s Office will take a call under which Act it will be notified, the Motor Vehicles Act or the Energy Conservation Act. The ministries are working together on that,” said another power ministry official, who also did not want to be identified.
The automobile industry, meanwhile, is already going ahead with its own voluntary labelling programme from the beginning of 2009.

“We will begin the voluntary labelling of mileage on cars from 1 January and by 1 April all companies will comply. We are not against mandatory efficiency norms, the process is going on but there should be just one agency the automobile industry should have to deal with,” said Pawan Goenka, president (automotive), Mahindra and Mahindra Ltd and vice-president, Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (Siam).

Mint couldn’t independently ascertain whether the new norms would make vehicles costlier.
Meanwhile, there is little consensus on who will monitor the standards. It is likely that independent laboratories will monitor the standards but “the where and how” haven’t been decided, said another government official on condition of anonymity.

The Automotive Research Association of India (Arai) and the National Automotive Testing and R&D Infrastructure Project (Natrip) are two of the organizations, which are currently on the probable list.

This official, however, expressed apprehensions about Arai or Natrip being responsible for monitoring standards. “Both organizations have the industry on board, which could be a conflict of interest. The role of a monitoring agency will be discussed again,” he added.

Goenka, however, differed. “It is very unfortunate that should be said. Arai is one of the oldest bodies in the sector and just because auto industries are on the governing board, doesn’t mean they won’t be performing objectively,” he said.

Last edited by rangaraj : 30th December 2008 at 08:50.
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Old 30th December 2008, 11:55   #44
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Whatever the disputes might be, I feel this is a good step in the right direction. This will stop companies putting out fraudulent claims about mileage and give the prospective buyers a good idea on the expected mileage.
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Old 30th December 2008, 12:35   #45
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We are hearing and discussing this from quite a long time. Hope it will be implemented as per the above article. If yes, it is very good for customers.
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