Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th October 2007, 11:38   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,457
Thanked: 282 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bottle View Post
thats a very well thought out post. but i think you have missed the point (or maybe i have) driving slow alone doesnt reduce accidents. rather put the focus on educating people on following rules.
This is the standard excuse on BHP for breaking the law.
If asked to stop using cellphones, the excuse is that there are other
things that cause accidents, so cellphones shouldn't be banned in the
car.
If asked to follow speed limit, the excuse again is that there are other
things that cause accidents, hence driving at very high speeds is ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rks View Post
As Hyundai.Lover pointed out, driving fast is a skill and those who are experienced can handle the speed safely. It is when an inexperienced driver gets his hands on a powerful vehicle and tries to cut loose that there is a grave danger of an accident.
Unfortunately, just like you every other guy who drives high speeds thinks he posseses a lot of skill. Unless there is some
unbiased external agency testing this skill & certifying who should & who shouldn't be allowed to drive fast, it's just your word
that you possess this skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rks View Post
I have been doing 130-150 kmph consistently on the Mumbai-Pune Expressway for the last 2 years, usually twice a week (Pune-Mumbai-Pune).
What days & time do you usually travel - i'll try to avoid those days/times.

Last edited by carboy : 16th October 2007 at 11:41.
carboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 11:42   #32
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
This is the standard excuse on BHP for breaking the law.
If asked to stop using cellphones, the excuse is that there are other
things that cause accidents, so cellphones shouldn't be banned in the
car.
If asked to follow speed limit, the excuse again is that there are other
things that cause accidents, hence driving at very high speeds is ok.
when speed limits are set without a traffic safety survey, they are bogus.
Tell me if the traffic police set the law that you cannot drive if you are wearing a black shirt will you call it sensible.
Delhi speed limits currently(50kmph irrespective of road conditions and traffic conditions) is as absurd as a law I stated otherwise.
Care to explain that how come on a 8 lane road a 50kmph limit is justified.
what they are saying is that on a 4 lane congested in city road and on a 8 lane outer ring road, the traffic conditions warrant the same speed limit.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 12:01   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

The US based Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) had conducted a survey of speeders (defined as those driving 15 mph above the limit). Their profile:

younger than drivers in the comparison group
drive newer vehicles
have more speeding violations and other driving violations on their records. Had 60% more crashes.

As tsk has pointed out, many speed limits set are total nonsense and not in consonance with safe speed limits (which can be higher than the low figure of 50-60 kmph, perhaps good for the Amby in which the Court Judge who gave the order). Drivers usually overspeed mainly to reduce travel time (marginal overspeeding), but also because of thrill-seeking, which probably affects the extreme cases of very high speeds. As noted by tsk again, the high percentage of drivers speeding excessively can in India and elsewhere be also explained by the dissonance between the road design and the speed limit on that road. These speed limits may not be credible, and less
acceptable for the drivers.

Many drivers assume that they are able to control their vehicles even when driving at high speed.

Of course, nearly all very high speeders (not the marginal over the limit speeders) tend to consider themselves as safe drivers who would never be responsible for an accident. For them, being caught by the law rather than safety is the main reason for avoiding driving at high speed. As all would know the extent of law enforcement in our country.
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 12:08   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
bottle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,489
Thanked: 133 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
This is the standard excuse on BHP for breaking the law.
If asked to stop using cellphones, the excuse is that there are other
things that cause accidents, so cellphones shouldn't be banned in the
car.
If asked to follow speed limit, the excuse again is that there are other
things that cause accidents, hence driving at very high speeds is ok..
i was talking about lane discipline and pedestrian behaviour. thats not quite hard to follow is it. and i was saying even if we were within speed limits accident still happen unless both sides follow rules and have some basic common sense
bottle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 12:19   #35
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 967
Thanked: 235 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bottle View Post
i was talking about lane discipline and pedestrian behaviour. thats not quite hard to follow is it. and i was saying even if we were within speed limits accident still happen unless both sides follow rules and have some basic common sense
Lane Discipline?? What is it?
We are Indians. We don't even know the concept of waiting in a queue.

C'mon lets be realistic.

-- Torqy
Torqy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 12:28   #36
BHPian
 
lordofgondor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UP 16
Posts: 936
Thanked: 155 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
when speed limits are set without a traffic safety survey, they are bogus.
Tell me if the traffic police set the law that you cannot drive if you are wearing a black shirt will you call it sensible.
Delhi speed limits currently(50kmph irrespective of road conditions and traffic conditions) is as absurd as a law I stated otherwise.
Care to explain that how come on a 8 lane road a 50kmph limit is justified.
what they are saying is that on a 4 lane congested in city road and on a 8 lane outer ring road, the traffic conditions warrant the same speed limit.
Right said tsk! All that comes to my mind when I think about the people who make such laws is, sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. )
lordofgondor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 12:50   #37
rks
BANNED
 
rks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ??
Posts: 1,237
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Unfortunately, just like you every other guy who drives high speeds thinks he posseses a lot of skill. Unless there is some
unbiased external agency testing this skill & certifying who should & who shouldn't be allowed to drive fast, it's just your word
that you possess this skill.
I actually drive every week, week after week. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I must have made 100+ trips by now through the Expressway. Each of these was done at high speeds. I consider my driving to be much safer than that of the average Joe, who meets with an accident every 5000 kms. I have had two minor accidents (scrapings) in all of the 59000 kms I have done so far in my Santro. But you believe what you want to believe. I am not over-anxious to justify my approach to you.
Quote:
What days & time do you usually travel - i'll try to avoid those days/times.
Suit yourself. I travel on Friday evenings and Monday mornings. Usually hit Expressway by 8-00 PM and 8-15 AM on these days.
rks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 13:34   #38
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default

Isn't it amazing that countries with higher speed limits then us and one country with no speed limits on many sections of it's autobahns have far less number of accidents and deaths on roads then us?

Off late the cops and the government are trying to get tough on overspeeding and rash driving. The most used technique here is to reduce speed limits in the hope that accidents will go down. If I was in charge of this country, I would aim to increase speed limits and simultaniously reduce accidents. By the way, does the government have any vision 2015 for traffic and road network in this country? For that matter, does the government have any vision beyond lasting 5 years in Delhi?
amit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 14:02   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

The WHO publishes the Global Burden of Disease (GBD) on a decadal basis. In 2002, road accidents accounted for 2.1% of all deaths worldwide. However, in high income countries, road deaths were 118,000 or 1.5% of all deaths. In South Asia, 0.24 million died or 1.7% of all deaths. Latin America and the Caribbean had the highest figure of 2.6% of all deaths.

Around 85% of all global road deaths, 90% of the disability due to crashes, and 96% of all children killed worldwide as a result of road traffic injuries occur in low-income and middle-income countries. Over 50% of deaths are among young adults in the age range of 15 –44 years.

In the age group of 5-14 yrs, road deaths are the second largest cause of death (behind childhood diseases). They are also the second largest cause of death in 15-29 years (behind only HIV), third largest cause of death in 30-44 yrs (behind HIV and TB), and 8th largest cause of death in 45-59 yrs.

I have already posted Nilsson Power Model which postulates that the probability of a crash involving an injury is proportional to the square of the speed. The probability of a serious crash is proportional to the cube of the speed.The probability of a fatal crash is related to the fourth power of
the speed.

Other empirical observations:
For car occupants,the severity of crash injury depends on the change of speed during the impact. As this increases from about 20 kmph to 100 kmph, the probability of fatal injuries increases from close to zero to almost 100%.

The probability of serious injury for belted front-seat occupants is three times as great at 30 miles/h (48 km/h) and four times as great at 40 miles/h (64 km/h),compared with the risk at 20 miles/h (32 km/h).

For car occupants in a crash with an impact speed of 50 miles/h (80 km/h),the likelihood of death is 20 times what it would have been at
an impact speed of 20 miles/h (32 km/h).

Pedestrians have a 90% chance of surviving car crashes at 30 km/h or below, but less than a 50% chance of surviving impacts at 45 km/h
or above.

The probability of a pedestrian being killed rises by a factor of eight as the impact speed of the car increases from 30 km/h to 50 km/h.

Excess and inappropriate speed contributes to around 30% of fatal crashes in high-income countries.
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 14:19   #40
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 886
Thanked: 64 Times
Default

I love open stretches of road and specially between Mumbai and Delhi. There are so many beautiful stretches with clear views and absolute visual delights in morning hours and evenings. I have been driving on the roads leading to Bangalore ( via Goa), umpteen trips to Mahabaleswar, few to Jaipur, Many to Silvasa, Dehradun-Delhi, Delhi- Jullundhar, Pathankot-Jammu, Udhampur, Pathankot- Katra on bikes and on cars and I drive daily to office 80 kms (round trip). Max I had driven is 180 ( speedo reading - may be 170 max on actual)on Ahemedabad- Baroda stretch - on CRDi. Normally I drive- between 80-100 on express highways and 110-120 - Mumbai -Pune expressway.
Now is the question- why? to me the comfortable cruising speed is what the road permits- visibility, open stretches ( line of sight) and familiar road- is mostly the reason and most important the ability of the car- how inspiring motor is . Some times to check just that(motor), sometimes its invitation of the roads, sometimes its sheer boredom, sometimes, its the -other car( no excuse!).
Did I have accidents? So far- No!- just scratches in traffic( Mumbai- thrice ladies bumping into car) and once- standing still at a signal and twice sandwiched- due to sudden braking- car from behind closed the normal gap that I had from the car in front). I will say that I am extra cautious- patient while overtaking, have followed a truck almost for 50 kms( one toll to another) because the gentleman driving it was deaf and blind(i would luv to beleive that!) and no matter what he wouldnt buzz or give me pass signal. I checked my tyres and no over speeding on curves- most nervous moments experienced at such bends and in monsoons or snow just melting conditions on various roads - and yes- oil spillage once. Look front- look into the mirrors- gradual speeding up - see the speedo climbing- look at the road markers- milestone and scenery whizzing past- and look at how much you are able to come closer to a good average speed of 60-65 kmph while reaching the destination( total distance travelled / total time taken to reach destination). Yes , it gives me adrenaline rush, I feel satisfied with my machine and myself after a good drive- and better still it helps me keep alert and active- I cant drive at a stretch more than 30 hours( continuously behind wheels- save for normal breaks for stretching, tea, rest , refuelling, meals etc.) or so I can say it took me to reach Ludhiana from Mumbai and I could be sleeping if in between I didnt speed up.
between Mumbai - Nagpur- Mumbai- rarely I found stretches where I could do more than 100kmph without risking suspension and then this hill near nasik - so much of time wasted on ghats- endless queue of trucks- to scape the noxious fumes- I sped - to save my life!!
If the car can do a max of 100, I feel I am safe upto 60-70, if it can do 200- I feel I can do upto 150 -160 without risking and if it can do 300, then I would love to do 240-250 and so I think I am obsessed with power and better still coupled with flatter and more than sufficient 'Torque'- so I may be rated as obsessed with.
And yes- safer cars- with ABS,EBD, TCS, Airbags et all- more the merrier. These are coming and becoming affordable and all of us who have been touring on the roads- know there are plenty available- inviting us- for a safe , happy and adventurous drive !( does it sound like paradox? my answer is - NO) that makes me feel like a free man.
shatrughna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 14:58   #41
BHPian
 
Venkatesh.C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 261
Thanked: 30 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
If you want to, I can stop posting on this thread, and let it continue as the members feel.
I did not mean any offense sir. Just an observation as the posts kept appearing as i was reading.
Keep it flowing man. Your posts do make sense.

Last edited by Venkatesh.C : 16th October 2007 at 14:59.
Venkatesh.C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 15:42   #42
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,664 Times
Default

@shatrughna

loved reading the post.
sums up in great detail, what I myself feel.
bblost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 15:48   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
madan80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 1,356
Thanked: 73 Times
Default

very interestig post. Yes, speed is a problem. And many a times, more than speed, is the inability of the drivers to handle their vehicles.

Driver education is the key, as people need not just to know the rules of the road, but also follow them.

the new IT highway in chennai, has a lovely road- and that generally eggs people to press on the gas. Many a times i throttle up as well, but only if there is no traffic.

Blaming the drivers however, is not the only thing. The road construction is also very haphazard. There are no overbrodges for pedestrians and like the freeways / highways abroad - there are no turnoffs. If you are going on a highway -you pass through a village and every villager believes the raod is his (or hers) so they WILL go in the center of the road.

The only thing we can do as responsible citizens is educate those who seek help and follow the rules ourselves.
madan80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 15:55   #44
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,175
Thanked: 128 Times
Default

Accepted statistics from WHO indicate 1.19 million deaths in road accidents per year. Of these, around one third or 0.4 million are because of overspeeding, or 1000 people killed everyday in the search for thrill.
vasudeva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2007, 15:59   #45
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 477
Thanked: 24 Times
Question Preachy post?

Is it only me that feels this thread is reaching preachy levels!

Why this obessesion? Well its NOT an obsession - its just a desire! Infact a lot of people just took it to be a statement rather than question the validity of the question!

I believe whenever we try and make a rule of common sense, we end up restricting/controlling ourselves. Look at US, i agree it has a good number of rules for a lot of things, but then again its such a restrictive society! You have people suing each other for petty things all the time!!

A society which runs on common sense and Moderation is much more advanced according to me. Japan, UK, france are a few good examples of this.

Often there is so much anguish with citizens over small things and tolerance levels are so low!!

I often notice small instances of this creeping in india too. IMO European/Asian (some) countries are a lot better in this regard. They understand individual/society/civil rights much better.

Why should ABS be made MANDATORY? i would rather have a CHOICE. Forcing it is as bad as not giving us the choice! Thats freedom according to me.
Elito11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The obsession with chrome mesh grilles! sidindica Modifications & Accessories 81 5th April 2016 22:23
Hatches and high speeds madan80 Technical Stuff 31 4th April 2007 19:32
Periodic noise at high speeds (Innova) oldmobile Street Experiences 0 11th September 2006 15:53
No power assistance from EPS at high speeds - Why ? mithun Technical Stuff 15 25th August 2006 23:00
Which is better ?AC ON or Windows rolled down in high speeds prince1a Technical Stuff 19 18th June 2006 11:54


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:28.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks