Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th October 2007, 06:52   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,798
Thanked: 745 Times
Default Heresay!

Mpower, I read that Maruti abandoned its attempt to install a diesel in the Gypsy in some Indian car magazine about 6 months ago. I do not remember what mag it was. I know my source is suspect but I was not expecting the subject to come up again in this lifetime so I have forgotten. Do the aftermarket diesel installs (e.g. 1.8 Isuzu) retain 4 wheel drive? Does a diesel that small have any power?

I am guessing the size factor of the engine compartment may have been only one factor of many other factors that Maruti considered important.

I personally would run right out and buy a good Gypsy diesel. Living in Dharamsala I am in drastic need of a little 4x4 diesel to bop around these big hills with. The local Mahindra dealers tell me that Himachal Pradesh will not register Mahindra Major and other army type 4x4s. I am going to check to see if that is really true. These guys seem more intent on trying to sell me a Scorpio or cars in stock than on telling me the truth.
DirtyDan is offline  
Old 24th October 2007, 11:43   #17
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,758
Thanked: 89,447 Times
Default

Quote:
Harsha, I am just happy that they havent killed the Gypsy yet. Its almost 20 years old sells in such low numbers that Maruti have decided to drag in on until it dies a natural death. I'll be surprised if they allocate any funds for updating this aging icon.
Its defense sales that keep the Gypsy going.
GTO is offline  
Old 15th February 2012, 18:23   #18
BHPian
 
Fuldagap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Narewadi
Posts: 51
Thanked: 32 Times
Question Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Saw this on FB the other day. Any clues anyone?
Attached Images
 
Fuldagap is offline  
Old 17th February 2012, 14:19   #19
BHPian
 
georgev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: KL-05
Posts: 233
Thanked: 5 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

always dreamt of a suitable spec. diesel gypsy with better interiors both in 2W and 4W options, if they can add 2 more doors nothing like it to take on the likes of M&M /Tata.s smiilar models.
georgev is offline  
Old 17th February 2012, 15:34   #20
BHPian
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 108
Thanked: 134 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

BHPians, I guess this is one topic that would get all of us excited and so did I - for as long as I have known about the DDIS engine. So, with this excitement, I spoke to an ex-product planning member from Suzuki (pardon, cannot disclose the name). And what he said gave me a definitive answer.

The MJD engine is designed ONLY FOR transverse application (read east-west like in FWD drive cars). The Gypsy has a longitudial engine (read north-south like in RWD cars) and drivetrain to go with it. Hence the 1.3 MJD cannot be fitted into the Gypsy. Period.

Request any MSIL insiders to confirm / clarify this. Cheers.
Aragorn is offline  
Old 17th February 2012, 15:36   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
JayD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cochin! At last
Posts: 3,195
Thanked: 1,996 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
The MJD engine is designed ONLY FOR transverse application (read east-west like in FWD drive cars). The Gypsy has a longitudial engine (read north-south like in RWD cars) and drivetrain to go with it. Hence the 1.3 MJD cannot be fitted into the Gypsy. Period.

Request any MSIL insiders to confirm / clarify this. Cheers.

There is a Gypsy with a 1.3 DDIS engine plonked in. So it can be done. Will post more details when i can.

Where there is a will, there is a way.
JayD is offline  
Old 17th February 2012, 16:38   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,108
Thanked: 87 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Why cant Maruti, Atleast bring a 1.6 or a 1.8lt petrol with 100+bhp?
And why is the Defence dept. not asking for a 1.8 diesel?
scooby05 is offline  
Old 17th February 2012, 17:19   #23
BHPian
 
Fuldagap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Narewadi
Posts: 51
Thanked: 32 Times
Smile Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby05 View Post
Why cant Maruti, Atleast bring a 1.6 or a 1.8lt petrol with 100+bhp?
And why is the Defence dept. not asking for a 1.8 diesel?
Personally, I never ever felt the need of a more powerfull engine in Gypsy King. A small 1.3 lt. engine does the trick i guess by keeping the kerb low and power to weight high. As per ACI magazine's in-gear acceleration records, Gypsy was quicker than an Esteem in 3rd gear, 20-80KMPH. I read this some years back (i have that issue with me alongwith all the others which i've read till now, just don't know which one is it :P)
A more powerfull engine and the archaic leaf springs may make co-passengers to become like boiling eggs inside the cabin over rough surface at higher speeds. The walking speed pleasures in a Gypsy, over any challengeable terrain, are still adequte i guess.
The Indian Army may not have had a stuck Gypsy till now to demand more power .
Also, I suggest watching Top Gear's Bolivia Special episode to watch Gypsy King being in company of a Land Cruiser and a Land Rover and fairing better than both of them. Captain Slow never bets on non-sense things.
Fuldagap is offline  
Old 19th February 2012, 07:14   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,326 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Personally, I never ever felt the need of a more powerfull engine in Gypsy King. A small 1.3 lt. engine does the trick i guess by keeping the kerb low and power to weight high. As per ACI magazine's in-gear acceleration records, Gypsy was quicker than an Esteem in 3rd gear, 20-80KMPH. I read this some years back (i have that issue with me alongwith all the others which i've read till now, just don't know which one is it :P)
A more powerfull engine and the archaic leaf springs may make co-passengers to become like boiling eggs inside the cabin over rough surface at higher speeds. The walking speed pleasures in a Gypsy, over any challengeable terrain, are still adequte i guess.
The Indian Army may not have had a stuck Gypsy till now to demand more power .
Also, I suggest watching Top Gear's Bolivia Special episode to watch Gypsy King being in company of a Land Cruiser and a Land Rover and fairing better than both of them. Captain Slow never bets on non-sense things.
In both the 1000 cc petrol gypsys I have owned in the past, I felt a distinct need for at least a 5th if not even a 6th cruise gear when driving on the highway. The same goes for the 1.3litre petrol gypsys that I ve driven. I do believe that the current gen 1.3 liter DDIS with its 5 gears would be lovely to have in the gypsy and if such a boon were to ever be granted to us souls by the sheer magnanimity and munificence of the great MSIL, it will probably resurrect it completely as a standard basic 4WD for civilian use. However, they really need to do something about its interiors, ergonomics, safety and suspension, to make it a tad more comfy at least! Why can't they simply launch the SX4 hatch with 4WD and/or the Jimny and/or the old gen Vitara/ Samurai with the Euro spec?
shankar.balan is offline  
Old 19th February 2012, 09:34   #25
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,975
Thanked: 2,497 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
The MJD engine is designed ONLY FOR transverse application (read east-west like in FWD drive cars). The Gypsy has a longitudial engine (read north-south like in RWD cars) and drivetrain to go with it. Hence the 1.3 MJD cannot be fitted into the Gypsy. Period.
Most engines can be transversely/Longitudinally mounted. The limiting factor is the gearbox, which has to be made very compact for Transversely mounted platforms.

You will see the 1.3 MJD in Longitudinal position if/when it appears on the Premier Rio.

The 2.2 mhawk engine is Longitudinally mounted on the Scorpio and transversely mounted on the XUV500. Engine block is identical, some external things like pipes, hoses and other auxiliaries have to be repositioned. If Maruthi wants to plonk the 1.3 in the Gypsy, it can be done, but I doubt there is any such plans.
4x4addict is offline  
Old 19th February 2012, 11:47   #26
BHPian
 
discoverwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 682
Thanked: 951 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
There is a Gypsy with a 1.3 DDIS engine plonked in. So it can be done. Will post more details when i can.

Where there is a will, there is a way.
Would love to see that and hope it is not converted to 2WD!!
discoverwild is offline  
Old 19th February 2012, 20:07   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 1,006 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

I think that more than the engine, it is the torque of diesel that is the stumbling block. All the drive train components - gear box, differentials, transfer box and the axles will have to be upgraded to take the diesel engine's torque. If they just plonk the diesel engine, one component or the other will keep breaking under rough use.

So in a nut shell a completely redesigned drive train starting from gearbox ending at axles is required. I doubt MUL will spend that kind of money on a relatively low volume (< 1000/month) vehicle. But we can always hope.
Aroy is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 20th February 2012, 23:08   #28
BHPian
 
rohing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BLR - CBE
Posts: 183
Thanked: 48 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Agree completely. While I am one more Gypsy fan waiting for speculation to come true, I doubt if the 1.3 DDIS will alone do the trick. It needs atleast

- Full safety kit (ABS/ Airbags)..imagine people driving the gypsy with the powerful engine on highways at 120+!!!
- It needs new interiors
- New suspension (more tuned to roads) & consequently offer better ride quality and better road manners
- AC & hard top
- better NVH esp with the diesel
- forward facing rear seats

and please dont lose the 4wd

Even if half of this comes through, will buy it in a jiffy! Keeping my fingers crossed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
I think that more than the engine, it is the torque of diesel that is the stumbling block. All the drive train components - gear box, differentials, transfer box and the axles will have to be upgraded to take the diesel engine's torque. If they just plonk the diesel engine, one component or the other will keep breaking under rough use.

So in a nut shell a completely redesigned drive train starting from gearbox ending at axles is required. I doubt MUL will spend that kind of money on a relatively low volume (< 1000/month) vehicle. But we can always hope.
rohing is offline  
Old 21st February 2012, 00:49   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,309
Thanked: 1,389 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
The MJD engine is designed ONLY FOR transverse application
Could you explain more on why? What difference does a FWD/RWD orientation makes on a engine? All the engine does is turn the GB, right? Given the same end result of BHP/Torque - would the engine behave different?
svsantosh is offline  
Old 21st February 2012, 13:14   #30
BHPian
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 108
Thanked: 134 Times
Default Re: Will Maruti ever launch Gypsy with 1.3L DDI-S Engine ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
There is a Gypsy with a 1.3 DDIS engine plonked in. So it can be done. Will post more details when i can.

Where there is a will, there is a way.
Would love to get more details! Please share when possible. And as mentioned elsewhere, hope its not in 2WD guise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Most engines can be transversely/Longitudinally mounted. The limiting factor is the gearbox, which has to be made very compact for Transversely mounted platforms.

You will see the 1.3 MJD in Longitudinal position if/when it appears on the Premier Rio.

The 2.2 mhawk engine is Longitudinally mounted on the Scorpio and transversely mounted on the XUV500. Engine block is identical, some external things like pipes, hoses and other auxiliaries have to be repositioned. If Maruthi wants to plonk the 1.3 in the Gypsy, it can be done, but I doubt there is any such plans.
Completely agree with you on the 2.2 mHawk. But the mHawk was designed from the start to be fit for both transverse and longitudinal orientation. Honda uses it in the Accord (its the same 2.2 block).

But what I was told is that 1.3 MJD is not designed in this way - or let me put it this way, it was never intended to be used longitudinally. Would be interesting to see how the Rio application shapes up

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Could you explain more on why? What difference does a FWD/RWD orientation makes on a engine? All the engine does is turn the GB, right? Given the same end result of BHP/Torque - would the engine behave different?
I only have a hunch and don't know the exact reason for the why: Could be the way crank-shaft is designed to withstand stress - I don't know how the stresses / forces of a 2WD vs AWD gearbox would be.

After this thread has started I am keen to meet the ex-Suzuki friend of mine and clarify more

Last edited by Aragorn : 21st February 2012 at 13:15. Reason: Grammar
Aragorn is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gypsy vs Gypsy King prasygreat 4x4 Vehicles 90 15th April 2016 01:14
Gypsy engine swapping with Baleno 1.6L engine ? kaushik_s Modifications & Accessories 32 25th December 2012 20:28
Have you ever played full volume of your ICE? Ever?? xingamazon In-Car Entertainment 27 5th January 2011 02:41


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks