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Old 31st October 2007, 10:40   #76
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Default Safari After Off Roading ?

Since the debate onoff roading ability of Safari has started, one interesting question came to my mind :

What happens to the Safari after serious off roading ?
With all the body problem that it has out of showroom, how much of rattling will increase after off roading ? How much do we have to spend in terms of effort and money to make it worth while again ?

Any thoughts/experience Steer ?
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Old 31st October 2007, 10:54   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
Also, the Scorpio is a far better vehicle for those who claim to like offroading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Can the CRV or the Scorpio do this?
Just to further aid the discussion, quoting myself from another thread. hoping this would further add value.

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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
This video is for the Scorpio fans

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Old 31st October 2007, 11:13   #78
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benbsb29, it was really amazing to see how scorpio crossed the indus river, it looks that they took the challenge and were doing deliberately. We know Safari comes with 4 yrs extended warranty, so there is very less maintenance cost and is one of the major factor for selecting it other than the comfort, image and many other things told by my friends.
But does any one knows what is the cost of maintenance associated with Safari after 4 yrs, say if some one wants to retain it for good 7-8 yrs.

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Last edited by Aditya : 31st October 2007 at 14:45.
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Old 31st October 2007, 11:50   #79
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Safari does have a fundamental design "issue" which tend to encourage body roll. Otherwise, I don't think TATA's would have gone back to the design board to design the next iteration of the Safari.

Do note that the current design was done in the days when TATA was predominately still a truck manufacturer. So what was acceptable then may not be acceptable now. But there is no way for TATA designers to "quick fix" this in the current design.
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:23   #80
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
That looks stuck rather than off roading !
Because it is a still photography not a movie.
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Old 31st October 2007, 13:14   #81
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Quote:
Its a ladder on frame chassis not monoque. It is going to have disadvantages. Moreover its a decade old design. The safari has been unchanged(effectively) from past 10 years except for the engine
Thats not our concern but Tata's problem, i mean what took them so long anyways.

In the current avtaar, i would not buy the Safari for many reasons mentioned else where.
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Old 31st October 2007, 13:29   #82
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Dont you think the engineers/ designers inside TATA for the Safari project are more qualified than most of us ??

And in commercial organisations its never a decision of "best technology" its always a balance of technology and commercial viability, depending on the markets.

Coming to the body on frame chassis and monocoque, I found this.

Quote:
Body on Frame

Advantages
- Easier to design, build and modify (less of an issue now that CAD is commonplace), but still an advantage for coachbuilt vehicles.
- More suited for heavy duty usage and can be more durable.
- Easier to repair after accidents.
- Overall better ride quality for SUVs.

Disadvantages
- Heavier than unibody - lower performance and/or higher fuel consumption.
- Center of gravity is usually higher - compromising stability and handling.
- Less resistant to torsion (flexing of the whole car in corners) - compromising handling and roadholding.
- No crumple zone - higher rate of death and serious injury.
- Higher production costs.

Body-on-frame remains the preferred construction method for heavy-duty commercial vehicles, especially those which are intended to carry and pull heavy loads, such as trucks
Quote:
Monocoque design is so sophisticated that windshield and rear window glass now often make an important contribution to the designed structural strength of automobiles. Unfortunately, when a vehicle with a unibody design is involved in a serious accident, it may be more difficult to repair than a vehicle with a full frame. Rust is also more of a problem, since the structural metal is part of the load bearing structure making it more vulnerable, and must be repaired by cutting-out and welding rather than by simply bolting on new parts (as would be the case for a separate chassis). Older cars with separate chassis can still pass vehicle inspection tests (such as the British MoT) with quite advanced rust in the sills (rocker panels) and pillars, whereas in more modern cars these parts are structural and would lead to a test failure. In the United States, vehicles will not pass state inspections if rust has perforated components such as rocker panels, floor pans, or pillars - regardless of the type of body construction.

Monocoque designs are favored amongst high-performance cars and racing cars today for their overall structural integrity and the fact that one can design a monocoque out of lightweight materials such as carbon fiber and expect the resulting vehicle to be light, stiff, and stable at high speeds and in tight corners. These types of particularly advanced monocoques can even be molded to create diffusers and ground effects which generate huge amounts of downforce.
Quote:
Its a ladder on frame chassis not monoque. It is going to have disadvantages. Moreover its a decade old design. The safari has been unchanged(effectively) from past 10 years except for the engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
Thats not our concern but Tata's problem, i mean what took them so long anyways.

In the current avtaar, i would not buy the Safari for many reasons mentioned else where.
Source/s: A B

Last edited by dadu : 31st October 2007 at 13:30.
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Old 31st October 2007, 14:40   #83
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Lets trust the Tata engineers, right. They are working on the X2 platform(or was it X1). This is supposed to be a monoque safari.
I am sure they are not planning to degrade the safari, only improve it right?
Lets accept the fact. Tata Safari is the best large Suv below 10L. Whether its a good one or not, thats the debate.
To be frank if there was competition like the Kia portage or Hyundai tuscon etc., in the same price range, the safari is big loser.
Scorpio is the only competition, and its no great shakes either and has limited intereor space.
Safari is a special vehicle, and I am going to buy one too, but being special does not meen flawless.
There are various other cars which are there or were there in the market which were special(eg OHC) but lousy.
Lack of competition does not mean a certain vehicle is good, it only means its better than others.
For example lets say you have three investment schemes. In one you lose 30% in another you lose 40% and in the third you lose 50%. The 30% loss one is the best, but it does not mean its a good deal.
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Old 31st October 2007, 15:47   #84
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tsk, you are always best on your number comparisions . BTW are you somehow linked to Finance related work.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:29   #85
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Man I thought this thread had a specific purpose in that Safari owners were asked by GTO to list out reasons why they had purchased the vehicle.

I wonder when this turned into a Safari vs Scorpio vs Bolero vs Spacio thread. I'm amazed at the wholehearted mud slinging & off topic discussions going on (under the benevolent eyes of our mods I might add)!

I do feel that we've lost the purpose of the thread - I'm sure this is not what the thread initiator had in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by power ranger View Post
What happens to the Safari after serious off roading ?
Check with Doctorkats - that man does some SERIOUS offroading as well

Last edited by suman : 31st October 2007 at 16:46.
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Old 31st October 2007, 16:46   #86
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Quote:

I do feel that we've lost the purpose of the thread - I'm sure this is not what the thread initiator had in mind.
Agreed. Please post any further replies only in relevance to the main topic of discussion.
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Old 31st October 2007, 21:23   #87
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Default scorpio ahead of safari ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Just to further aid the discussion, quoting myself from another thread. hoping this would further add value.
I am sure this is out of topic. But this is very interesting for all of us interested in Safari. somebody should see this also to realise how bad the scorpio is in off roading. I am sure Safari would have come out of this.

Last edited by power ranger : 31st October 2007 at 21:24.
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Old 31st October 2007, 21:37   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by power ranger View Post
I am sure this is out of topic. But this is very interesting for all of us interested in Safari. somebody should see this also to realise how bad the scorpio is in off roading. I am sure Safari would have come out of this.
That's a 2WD scorpio in a situation that needs 4WD, no heavy 2WD could have done any better.
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Old 31st October 2007, 21:44   #89
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That looks like a 4wd to me. Note the front wheels spining.

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Old 31st October 2007, 21:58   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drifter View Post
That looks like a 4wd to me. Note the front wheels spining.

Drifter
Definitely 4wd equipped with a not-so-qualified driver (see how he couldn't maintain momentum at the end). However looking at the wheels spinnning, it definitely needs locking differentials.
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