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Old 1st November 2007, 00:13   #91
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Dont you think the engineers/ designers inside TATA for the Safari project are more qualified than most of us ??
They might be more qualified then us, but they surely arenot as experienced as say a Toyota, Honda, Hyundai engineer/designer.
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Old 1st November 2007, 00:29   #92
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Originally Posted by drifter View Post
That looks like a 4wd to me. Note the front wheels spining.

Drifter
Oh, I was thinking FWD. But doesn't Scorpio have diff locks in 4L? Hmm, there is so little known about Scorpio 4WD. Let's get back to Safari.
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Old 1st November 2007, 01:48   #93
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yup agree with drifty here
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Old 1st November 2007, 03:21   #94
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@viper, I believe those are modified safaris.
It's v1p3r. Like l337. Unlike viper. No i, no e. And I believe only the sway-bars are removed. Of course, it is 3.20 am here, and I may be forgetting something.

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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Just to further aid the discussion, quoting myself from another thread. hoping this would further add value.
Yeah, it looks like a road behind Hosur Rd that I once took with Jay, Mcl, Zak, and 3 others in a Safari without having to engage 4wd. Maybe you ought to sit in a Safari, or any other real 4wd to see what they are capable of. I'm sure the "bad as.s" stuff that "only a mahindra can do" is something that everyone, including the other commenting YouTuber, rockbath knows is child's play for a Safari.
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Old 1st November 2007, 11:31   #95
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Went to Mallik Motors in Banjara Hills twice for a test drive.Couldn't get one as I got the same reply on both occasions-"saar,no executives".I don't know why they had the demo car there.Coming to the point,My Dad is probably going to buy the VX RWD anyway.
Now,my Dad travels twice a week on the highway which includes a lot of rural roads,so that pretty much excludes the Innova though he likes it a lot,inspite of it being a Minivan.I,for one wouldn't be caught dead in one of those things.That leaves the Scorpio and the Safari.We owned a Scorpio for 3 years in which it did over 100,000 kms after which we sold it last year.A friend of mine owned a Safari non-dicor limited edition.
I thought the overall chassis stiffness of the safari was much better than the Scorpio,in which there would be massive flex when you would go over potholes at speeds over 50 km/h.This was present to a much less degree in the Safari.Plastics were just as flimsy in both.Comfort and Ride was much better in the Safari.Handling was scarier in the Scorpio,though it was nothing you couldn't get used to as long as I didn't corner it like my GTX or my mom's Octavia.It's not supposed to anyway!
In the end I think at around the 10 lakh rupee mark,the only 2 suv's are the Scorpio and the Safari.With the new engine,I think the Safari is a much better truck than the Scorpio.
It's surprising that no one here has discussed the Torsional rigidity and the Structure stiffness of both the trucks.I think it's a huge issue especially on Indian roads.
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Old 1st November 2007, 14:11   #96
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Dear GTO,

why the Safari is more preferred is because
1) Not a Taxi image unlike its rivals in SUV & MUV
2) Tata Engines especially the previous 3.0ltr and the new 2.2ltr is what most people would look at as an improvement in tech.
3) the features cosmetic that you get internally like lcds, the bells and whistles overlooking the plastic quality.
4) THE RIDE PART this is something everyone would like to have on Indian roads.
Below is my experienced the 2.2ltr
ride quality @ 80kmph speeds done from Khopoli to Alibaug via Nagothane. The road is near to non-existant every 3 km of broken tarmac. The ride quality was simply superb.
The body roll was not there which i strongly feel is because of the rough patches on bends and hairpins and the body roll was quite evident on the stretch from Lonavla to Khopoli. The old ghat section did show the body roll. The driver used the 4x4 option on a small stretch of the ghat and although speed reduced with engine growl increase the road holding was fantastic, NOW!!!
5) Cruisng speed in India is 80 to 100 anything above that both driver and passengers feel scarry.
6) Looks.
7) dealer network (Even if it sucks big time) and every now an then the friendly roadside mechanic

above is my opinion. and also my next buy.

btw even the Sumos suspension is better than a Scorpio or Tavera as experinced it.

hey 1 more plus point is the tata vehicles undergo a very tough simulation test of 400 to 500 hrs for checking structural weakness, engine chassis fatigue for inidan road conditions seen the indica & tatamobile on test simuilators - its a torture rather 3rd degree!!! (yeh to undar ki baat hai!!)
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Old 1st November 2007, 17:31   #97
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I totally second that. Endeavour, the less said the better and CRV, whoever slotted this in the SUV bracket?

You can safely plunge the Safari in any off road situation and it will come out with flying colours. Try doing the same with the other two, you will come flying out of the windscreen..

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Originally Posted by suman View Post
1) Space
2) Unparalleled middle row comfort
3) Fatigue free driving comfort
4) Rock steady on the highway at speeds in excess of 110 kmph - provided you don't try Slaloming or Elking (IMHO, not required)
5) Lack of any comparable alternatives in that price band (I have the VX 4x4 & I find the fit & finish levels quite acceptable) - nothing came close
6) Suitability for the crazy traffic conditions in the NCR (as in road presence factor - the "Don't mess with me" kind)
7) Extremely low maintenance costs


Is the Endeavour worth 1.8 million - or the CRV worth the 2 million almost on-road? Not in my opinion but they have their market share too..........
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Old 1st November 2007, 20:27   #98
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As long as we are comparing with foreign SUVs, Can a Safari match Landrover in either comfort or off-roading ? I think the deal here is "for an indian made indian bought" vehicle, is Safari's handling acceptable ? I think the answer is its a good attempt but still quite short of what tatas can achieve in time given that body roll, smooth gear shifts etc are _relatively_ low tech problems that require real life data from actual use but not extreme engineering to overcome. My only fear is that Tatas are getting a feedback that Safari is quite OK and will thus stop focusing on improving the handling and shifting.
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Old 2nd November 2007, 11:16   #99
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Originally Posted by comfortfreak View Post
As long as we are comparing with foreign SUVs, Can a Safari match Landrover in either comfort or off-roading ?

what I would like to say that if we at all comparing the Safari to vehicles like land rovers (which is belive is the grand dad of all SUV's and my dream) lets us not forget to compare that everything has a price. The Safari retails from as low as 8lacs. Wheres as we all know Land Rovers are at least 10 times more expensive (in india) than Tata Safaris. If lets say Tata Safari decides to give all the comforts and try to math the quality that the vehicles like land rovers are providing and the increase the price to 1/4th or half the price of land rovers how many vehicles do you think they would sell and how many of us would buy them?
According to me the amount of money they are charging they are giving a very decent value of money spent.
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Old 2nd November 2007, 11:36   #100
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Originally Posted by comfortfreak View Post
As long as we are comparing with foreign SUVs, Can a Safari match Landrover in either comfort or off-roading ?
Who is? Here we go, again....the title is "Why Safari" not "Safari vs........."

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My only fear is that Tatas are getting a feedback that Safari is quite OK and will thus stop focusing on improving the handling and shifting.
Sure, like they were ever focussed on doing anything based on our feedback
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Old 2nd November 2007, 11:46   #101
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Originally Posted by comfortfreak View Post
As long as we are comparing with foreign SUVs, Can a Safari match Landrover in either comfort or off-roading ? I think the deal here is "for an indian made indian bought" vehicle, is Safari's handling acceptable ?
Well, lets not forget that TATAs have been into car industry for just 10 years and are still able to compete with some of the major car makers in the world. Secondly their price is a fraction of Land Rovers price, then how many in India can dream of an SUV like Land Rover and finally how many Safari owners whould go in for serious off-roading.
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Old 2nd November 2007, 11:53   #102
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It becomes a natural tendency that when we own a big vehicle read Indian made so called SUVs, we immediately start comparing them to the true blue SUVs manufactured abroad. If really a comparison has to be made then why not with the mother of all SUVs - The Hummer. The so called Cruisers or Rovers don't stand a chance with the H Series in any department on a one-to-one basis.

Since most of us who have bought a Safari or a Scorpio, do so since the Landcruisers or Rovers are way out of our budget, what we are getting at that price is something amazing. And as the tilte suggests we are discussing Safari/DICOR.

Take a ride, do an interstate, you'll start loving this beast. When you are thundering down the road at 120+ kms with an amazing road-grip and prescence and nary a sound in the cabin, you stop bothering about bad plastics and interiors..

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfortfreak View Post
As long as we are comparing with foreign SUVs, Can a Safari match Landrover in either comfort or off-roading ? I think the deal here is "for an indian made indian bought" vehicle, is Safari's handling acceptable ? I think the answer is its a good attempt but still quite short of what tatas can achieve in time given that body roll, smooth gear shifts etc are _relatively_ low tech problems that require real life data from actual use but not extreme engineering to overcome. My only fear is that Tatas are getting a feedback that Safari is quite OK and will thus stop focusing on improving the handling and shifting.

Last edited by gd1418 : 2nd November 2007 at 11:55.
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Old 2nd November 2007, 12:00   #103
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Who is? Here we go, again....the title is "Why Safari" not "Safari vs........."
Boss, a couple of pages back there was a whole lot of stuff about US SUVs v/s Safari. I was just late in jumping in . My point is the same as your's, that there is no reason to compare SUVs made for indian public with SUVs for americans due to cost reasons.

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Sure, like they were ever focussed on doing anything based on our feedback
You never know. I remember someone here often had inside info on tata motors projects. While I respect opinions of Steeroid etc, I feel they are too uncritical of those aspects of Safari which can/should be improved so that us softroaders can also later comfortably own one !!!
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Old 2nd November 2007, 12:02   #104
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Well, I suggest everyone go through this read once by Harjeev ( new owner of 2.2 Ex 2x4 )

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...tml#post614496

I am a little shocked by reading his story - what do you people advise ?

I was very close to buying a Safari 2.2 when it was launched BUT people advised me to rethink. I am still a Hardcore admirer of Safari.
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Old 2nd November 2007, 12:07   #105
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Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
what I would like to say that if we at all comparing the Safari to vehicles like land rovers (which is belive is the grand dad of all SUV's and my dream)
This should be interesting:

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Two things taint the Defender: The driving position for large people is uncomfortable because the front seats are positioned so close to the doors that broad-chested men and women find that their shoulders constantly rub against the centre (b) roof pillar: Many people just do not fit into the seat of what is not a small vehicle. But more significantly, and sadly, over the past 15 years, the build quality of Land Rovers has deteriorated to the point that they now have a widely held reputation of unreliability. Unlike the old days when electrics were a common but fixable problem, today repeated failures of engines, gearboxes and drive-trains are tainting the reputation of what once was the icon of strength and dependability. The result is scores of Land Rover owners are now driving Japanese replacements. Myself included.
And you can read more here:
4XFORUM.COM - The Comprehensive 4X4 Information Portal[_id]=206

____ Many other sites also suggest you are best off with a Toyota, not a Land Rover.

Last edited by anupmathur : 2nd November 2007 at 12:08.
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