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Old 2nd November 2007, 22:43   #121
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Flawed comparison dear. Absolutely.
Family should be awake and watching. Many people are allergic to 140.
And cousin does not seem like a speed enthusiast. Which is what came as a dis-appointment to his family as well! I'm not surprised.
LOL nitpick me now.

Same family in both cases. Earlier cousin's scorpio. Then the safari.

And why should they be awake and watching when the vehicle is comfortable enough to catch some nap even at that speed?
The scorpio isnt, so candy for anyone who wants to sleep.

Any other loophole in the text for your nitpicking fun?

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Old 2nd November 2007, 23:54   #122
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Originally Posted by dkamath View Post
perhaps a not-so good point to put across in today's advanced world of automobiles. the safari carries on with the body-on-frame legacy type of construction, unlike new SUV's which have adapted themselves with monocoque construction. the chassis type of construction, though old today, would still make sense for our roads, for longevity sake atleast. for the kind of roads that are maintained here in india, a monocoque body might flex over time(as it would still weigh more, though not as much as a car with body-on-frame construction), while the body-on-frame type can prove to be more durable. that's one compelling reason i would suggest to go in for a safari.
Chassis' can twist and bend too, especially along the length between the axles, so I wouldn't give it a thumbs up in terms of durability. People in body-on-frame vehicles as you've described it complain of a 'relative motion' between the body and the mechanicals on bad roads. This could be because the CG tends to be a little higher and the occupants will experience more roll. The body-on-frame allows for greater flexibility and platformisation, possibly a better ride quality save for the problems mentioned above.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 09:57   #123
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Default Flawed comparison?...no, no comparison at all.

The argument was that the Safari handles poorly. That it handles great for the money was not really the issue way back several days and several posts ago.

Again, the Safari has the right equipment on paper to handle much better than it does. What is suspect to my mind is the quality of the components. Below are its suspension specs. I submit to you that the vehicle, given its existing equipment, could be greatly improved simply by adding better anti-sway bars and better shocks. I am talking about an improvement that would entail a production cost increase to Tata of maybe 10,000 rupees. This does not make it a Pajero or an Endeavor. It would make it handle much better though.

These specs below are taken from Tata's web page on Safari:

Front double wishbone type with torsion bar springs
Rear coil spring type 5 Link suspension
Shock Absorber Hydraulic double-acting telescopic type at front & rear
Anti-roll bar both front and rear
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Old 3rd November 2007, 13:20   #124
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The best was when I was driving down MG Road infested with those crazy Call centre drivers and I hooted a Sumo guy from behind. He looked up on the RVM, adjusted and immeidtaely went left to give me side..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan View Post
"6) Suitability for the crazy traffic conditions in the NCR (as in road presence factor - the "Don't mess with me" kind)
I true that. When i took the test drive i honked at the auto guy he looked back and the way he changed the lane to give me the way was like i was YAMRAJ and if he didn't gave me side he will be sitting on the hood of SAFARI and we will be flying to HELL"

Fully agree!

1. Going into a round about, a PTC (state transport corporation) bus actually stopped in his tracks to let me go by. Has never happened to me before (even though I had the right of way in the same position) when driving an Innova or a Scorpio.

2. A sedan driver lowered his glass and personally requested by signalling that he cross my line of takeoff when waiting for a 'U' turn. Had a similar experience with a 'share auto' (the daredevils on Chennai roads)!

Enough reason to buy a Safari apart from a host of others!
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Old 4th November 2007, 07:11   #125
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I don't own a safari and i never liked one....a couple of my friends bought the 3.0ltr safari,and i mocked them and cribbed about how the fit and finish was pathetic,how lazy the engine was,the turning radius was too big blah blah blah...
one of the friend asked me to drive it,and boy that was the day my "perception" about the safari changed.the view is perfect though rear visibility is a problem(can be addressed by a camera),the suspension is just too good,speedbreakers...what speedbreakers!!
IMHO its a perfect suv in the 10lac bracket and offers unparalleled comfort,space and ride quality.i am a fan

P.S.-.the key to liking and enjoying the safari is...DO NOT compare it to hatches,sedans etc as far as engine,handling is concerned.any other parameter,the safari will beat every automobile hands down.
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Old 4th November 2007, 18:26   #126
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Default safari Yes or NO!!

Can ONLY Safari owners like Steeroid, 3 ltr and some 2.2 owners confirm how good is a Tata engine in terms of Reliability.

I am personally inclined to buy a 2.2 and after reading
harjeev's experience of a brand new vehicle with engine module problems on first day has shaken my confidence that i was gathering of this vehicle.

Now for me comfort is secondary but and engine to be working with NO major problems is a MUST and that excludes normal wear.
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Old 4th November 2007, 19:07   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
The argument was that the Safari handles poorly. That it handles great for the money was not really the issue way back several days and several posts ago.

Again, the Safari has the right equipment on paper to handle much better than it does. What is suspect to my mind is the quality of the components. Below are its suspension specs. I submit to you that the vehicle, given its existing equipment, could be greatly improved simply by adding better anti-sway bars and better shocks. I am talking about an improvement that would entail a production cost increase to Tata of maybe 10,000 rupees. This does not make it a Pajero or an Endeavor. It would make it handle much better though.

These specs below are taken from Tata's web page on Safari:

Front double wishbone type with torsion bar springs
Rear coil spring type 5 Link suspension
Shock Absorber Hydraulic double-acting telescopic type at front & rear
Anti-roll bar both front and rear
Now that's an argument you cant find fault with.

Although the handling is quite ok for the user after some use, but yes, as you rightly pointed out, can/should definately be improved.

Anyways. There is still hard to find much fault with the vehicle taking the price into equation and the maintainence costs.

And that is exactly why it sells.
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Old 4th November 2007, 20:50   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Godzilla View Post
Can ONLY Safari owners like Steeroid, 3 ltr and some 2.2 owners confirm how good is a Tata engine in terms of Reliability.

I am personally inclined to buy a 2.2 and after reading
harjeev's experience of a brand new vehicle with engine module problems on first day has shaken my confidence that i was gathering of this vehicle.

Don't let this one small event shake you confidence on the Tata Safari.
If you have read my subsequent posts you must know by now that the problem wasnt because of a faulty or inferior engine quality. Is was just an oversight on part of the PDI team who forgot to remove the cardboard packing. It could have happened to any car. Even a Merc or BMW.

On the contrary it strengthened my trust and belief in the quality and superiority of the technology used by the Tatas. Had it not been for the Electronic Control Unit (ECU) there would have been far greater problem with the engine. And that would have been a cause of concern.

As far as the engine is concerned please read the Test Drive reports and LTR's.
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Old 4th November 2007, 21:38   #129
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Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
As far as the engine is concerned please read the Test Drive reports and LTR's.
We have the Safari Test Drive coming in Autocar Nov Issue.

And the verdict according to them is

Comfort: 9/10 (The Most comfortable and Spacious SUV at any price)
Safety: 8/10 (ABS and 2 Airbags are a standard in VXI)
Performance: 7/10 (Lacks Initial response but much faster than before)
Ride: 8/10 (Now even better thanks to tubeless tyres and suspension tweaks)
Refinement : 7/10 (Much improved with significantly lower vibration)
Handling: 6/10 (Turns into corners more eagerly but with plenty of body roll)
Value: 8/10 (New generation engine for marginal price increase)
Build Strength & Quality: 4/10 (Feels tough but fit and finish still poor, needs improvement)

Note: All the comments from the autocar Test Scorecard)


Enough reason to buy a safari dicor 2.2
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Old 5th November 2007, 00:17   #130
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Default Do we need more Reasons ?

Why Safari ? Let me list out my reasons :

We should appreciate that an Indian company has indeginously designed such a wonderful vehicle. The tatas are a young company as far as car making is concerned, not even a decade and they have conceived and delivered one of the most difficult shapes to achieve in a SUV.

The Germans buy German cars, Japanese buy Japanese cars, why shouldn't we Indians buy Indian cars.

True, that the Tatas have a few issues to sort out. However, if we as Indians do not buy Indian cars, where do they get the money and invest in R & D to compete against 5 decade old makers like Toyota ?

No Inflation - They have maintained the price almost in the same range since 1998, when the safari was launched. Thanks to Tata for their patience to keep producing the Safari for such a long time with no great sales to back up. They still bravely fought on and made constant improvements ( they could have got the 3.0 earlier and in my opinion should not have discontinued the 3.0, atlast they had found the right engine (my apologies to 2.2 )).

Is there anybody who gives more for the money ?
Do we need more reasons ?
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Old 5th November 2007, 09:45   #131
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Originally Posted by abbey4u View Post
Build Strength & Quality: 4/10 (Feels tough but fit and finish still poor, needs improvement)
Hopefully tatas read this and work on this. Its not impossible for them to get some expert help from outside and redo the entire fit and finish, interiors, put in place top class quality practices.

I hope tatas take this seriously and concentrate on this for next release. Tatas can seriously take on Japs in world market.
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Old 5th November 2007, 09:53   #132
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
... get some expert help from outside and redo the entire fit and finish, interiors, put in place top class quality practices..
And what would that do to the price?
They must do it in-house; it's not that they don't know what needs doing.
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Old 5th November 2007, 10:36   #133
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Let me add my 2 cents here

Reasons why i like Safari and why i bought one

1. Lots and Lots of space

2. VFM,with this much money you cant buy anything better than this.

3. Gr8 highway cruiser ,effortless drive

4. Non Taxi image

5. Suspension meant strictly for Indian Roads

6. Nice view,seating,Commands respect on Road and gets it always cos i dont like getting bullied.

7. Low cost of ownership(Gr8 FE+maintenace costs)

there can be other reasons as well,but i'm a happy and satisfied owner of 3.0L
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Old 5th November 2007, 11:56   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
And what would that do to the price?
Think - what would that do to the sales? I can count so many folks on my office floor who want to buy a safari but dont because of its quality. Everyone likes safari but buys scorpio because of better quality/fit and finish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
They must do it in-house; it's not that they don't know what needs doing.
Then what are they waiting for? and why havent they improved the quality and interiors? Are they lazy or dont care what the customers want? to me, they are trying but are failing (check the new beige initiative - how many ppl have liked it??)

Its time they accept their weaknesses, invest some funds, get expert advice and turn the corner. Yes, they will suffer some losses initially, but will recover pretty soon due to higher sales and increased customer satisfaction. I believe tatas can become the leader in suv/muv segment, just have to make safari a better quality product.
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Old 5th November 2007, 12:06   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLL View Post
Everyone likes safari but buys scorpio because of better quality/fit and finish.
I doubt if that is the case. While the Safari is much maligned on this count (and rightly so, too) one shouldnt be under the impression that M&M are miles ahead. Their plastics are as crappy, and their build quality as bad. The Scorp rattles a lot more than the Safari, especially after some rough road drives when it sounds like it might come apart at the seams.

The only +ve of the Scorpio was its engine.

But lets leave that to the Scorpio v/s Safari thread - leave the scorpio out of this thread please.
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