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Old 7th November 2007, 18:07   #16
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Thomas bhaiya, how about you being kidnapped for your silly advice, if you cant give a good advice, better to shut your trap. Already we are being taxxed hell lot much more then else where, plus the stupid new 12% excise and what not. Instead build better infrastructure.
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Old 7th November 2007, 23:21   #17
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IF you tax the hell out of cars and use the money to build public transit, the lower income people (who never had cars in the first place) will benefit...that's it.

Additionally the people in semi urban places were traffic is not an issue will also have to bear the tax brunt.

Instead a congestion toll like in London may be better.
A car-pool lane system like in California will help.
Its not possible to build a Metro system overnight, but it is possible to introduce A/C delux buses.
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Old 7th November 2007, 23:40   #18
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Quite obviously, Mr. Friedman doesn't know what TAX in India means and where the TAX goes. He wouldn't have made that statement otherwise.

He should've asked the ********** government to USE the TAX that is already being paid by us for infrastructure development instead of buying Italian marble for their homes.

Mr. Friedman, i'm getting irritated. You have NO IDEA what we pay and what happens to it.

-- Torqy
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Old 8th November 2007, 00:27   #19
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Mr. Friedman is a bit disingenious. One cannot ask India (or China, for that matter) not to rely on automobiles, as long as the US won't even try to lose their dependance on them. Should Indians rely on public transports so that the US will remain able to buy cheap oil for their cars? No.

However, all countries must move away from the automobile as far as possible. Not only do they destroy the environment, but too many cars also ruin the fun for those who choose to drive. I live in NYC (not really a part of the US) and don't own a car - because there's no need for me to do so. I could, but it would be expensive and inconvenient. I may one day buy an enthusiast's car, to enjoy on weekend drives into the countryside, but NEVER as a means for transportation. If only a similar life was possible in Delhi, Chennai, Beijing or Kansas, this world would be a much better place.
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Old 8th November 2007, 01:03   #20
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Depend on mass transportation in India? No offences but this thomas dude has not yet been on a ST bus or train yet.
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Old 8th November 2007, 09:33   #21
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Completely agree.

Only problem: Tax raising is a 5 min job. Building quality well planned infrastructure in India - ha ha ha. Only the metro has been the project (Del/Kol) which has weaned people away from personal traffic.

Today Delhi is again unbreathable. God bless diesel cars (and those innumberable taxis/indicas/taveras)
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Old 8th November 2007, 10:28   #22
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During a trip to Delhi 13 years back, I met a guy on the train. He was going for a 10 day visit. He had his bike in the brake van. Claimed that was cheaper than depending on DTC, He said DTC, not auto or taxi. so much for our public transport, I felt he is right while returning.
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Old 9th November 2007, 12:17   #23
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We public always pay up the toll as asked in the toll plazas on the highways. No one denies to pay or bribes the officials with less money and escapes. Why is this so?

Whereas people give all sorts of excuse when fined for speeding, cheat the security at parking spaces without paying the parking fee etc. There is some difference I think.

We use the nicely laid highway and I think we "feel good". And find paying for that as appropriate. That may not be the case with city roads and parking places.

So if the govt gives proper roads people will are willing to pay and use them appropriately. Properly designed roads are very essential as one will not have doubt in their mind about when the next pothole will come their way or a speed breaker etc and drive smoothly ensuring smooth flow of traffic.
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Old 9th November 2007, 16:14   #24
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I have a better/easier idea than Tom FriedBeans! BAN the CARS!! Imagine! no cars in the whole geographical area of India!! What a relief will be that for the environment!! Think about how much oxygen will be made available for more equals of the developed countries to breath!!

The americans love textbook solutions. If something seems "bad", but can't be banned, "TAX" it. If you don't like a dictator "democratize". If you DO like "support the dictator". If the company makes loss, "Downsize", but don't touch the executive bonus. But I digress!!

As it is, the government gets enough tax revenue to build all the mass transit systems needed in the country. All of it is diverted into the general blackhole and nothing gets done.

I welcome the little buggy of Tata. Let ALL the companies, from Tata to Maini to Kaja Autos of Chavakkad make them and make all the roads (if we can call them that) into a parking lot.

Why? We Indians have the habit of doing things only when it becomes an unmanageable problem. Let the problem grow, and we will see the babus get their behinds up and do something.

When even their cars with the flashing lights on top can't find a way in the mess that is.
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Old 9th November 2007, 16:49   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DileepKS View Post
I have a better/easier idea than Tom FriedBeans! BAN the CARS!! Imagine! no cars in the whole geographical area of India!! What a relief will be that for the environment!! Think about how much oxygen will be made available for more equals of the developed countries to breath!!

The americans love textbook solutions. If something seems "bad", but can't be banned, "TAX" it. If you don't like a dictator "democratize". If you DO like "support the dictator". If the company makes loss, "Downsize", but don't touch the executive bonus. But I digress!!

As it is, the government gets enough tax revenue to build all the mass transit systems needed in the country. All of it is diverted into the general blackhole and nothing gets done.

When even their cars with the flashing lights on top can't find a way in the mess that is.
Wow! Now that's a point of view I agree with whole heartedly!! Let's just hope our Govt. learns some sense before it's too late!
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Old 9th November 2007, 16:56   #26
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Our country has enough tax revenue. The problem is efficiently using the tax money.
Most of it disappears somehow.
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Old 9th November 2007, 17:01   #27
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This is one of those tough ones, as car lovers we obviously like the freedom of personal transportation.

But on the other hand all of us can see the traffic situation deteriorating rapidly everyday. This is an overpopulated badly managed country so the challenges before us require unique solutions.

Things that have worked before in the US, UK or elsewhere will not work here, overtaxing cars is the wrong way to approach this problem but since its the simplest for our lazy system instead of tackling the harder problems its likely to be the first one to be used.
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Old 9th November 2007, 19:22   #28
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Why not Just start Taxing the hell out of everything that is going out of control, like automobiles, the number of children u have, that amount of the countries AIR people are breathing and using up and why not start with NEW YORK times for using too much of black ink adding to the pollution coz the soot in the ink needs wood to be burned?!?

make mass transit system attrative enough for people to want to leave their car and travel in that.more than cars, bikes are used in india, in terms or sheer number. and there is no smooth system of public transport, why not start a big dig now to help 15 years from now?
how about starting with some air conditioned metro rails like in delhi on every major city, the rate and comfort level will lure people in, after all who would like to drive 40 KM to work and back every day any one would like to be driven down, aleast a major part of the journey.More than care, bikes are used, now if u start taxing the hell of automobiles the leaders would be robbing us our right.
If they really neeed to do something drastic remove the subsidy they give on civillian fuel, people can buy cars but will think a couplt of times before wasting fuel.

These guys should not make such blatant blind statements.
I detest it.
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Old 9th November 2007, 22:24   #29
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Dear Thomas Friedman, it is very hard for us third worlders not to follow the US model. So I think you should advice the US government to build better public transport and ban any vehicle that gives less than 35 mpg, including those gazillion hummers and Abrams your military uses. We then will happily follow your model and tax the hell out of our piddly 1 liter engined cars.
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Old 9th November 2007, 23:08   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
Dear Thomas Friedman, it is very hard for us third worlders not to follow the US model. So I think you should advice the US government to build better public transport and ban any vehicle that gives less than 35 mpg, including those gazillion hummers and Abrams your military uses. We then will happily follow your model and tax the hell out of our piddly 1 liter engined cars.
We see multitude of Humungous trucks occupying roadspace serving the purpose of transporting not more than one person.

Regarding public transport scene in India, there is another aspect to it which I am made aware of by the female acquaintances. That it generally gets self degrading to use those considering the number of perverts amongst the population who use those. What is that going to take, to be solved? Infrastructure, or education regarding respect for every other individual. As long as this grouse remains, the need for personal means of transportation will not be entirely eliminated.

Last edited by 1100D : 9th November 2007 at 23:14.
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