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View Poll Results: Pick your beast
Safari DICOR 2.2 317 78.08%
Scorpio mHawk 2.2 89 21.92%
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:05   #361
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Lets try and put it this way (disclaimer: I have driven the mHawk quite extensively - my friend's taxi business has one for the Hotel - Airport shuttle run):

1. The mHawk is definitely more refined. Not by a significant amount and definitely not enough to make the 2.2 VTT sound 'agricultural' as tsk has put it (it does make the 3.0 sound agricultural though), but it is better damped for sound.

2. The mHawk has steering wheel shake (yes, SHAKE) when you take corners at speeds that the Safari would be comfortable at without being pushed. I found this scary, but my friend says it doesnt matter to him as he wont be throwing the truck around with paying passengers anyway.

3. Power - The power difference between the 2.2 VTT and the mHawk is SIGNIFICANT. The perception that the mHawk is nearly as good is primarily on account of better damping - a vehicle that does the same speeds with lower noise intrusion actually feels faster. Actually, a 3.0 Dicor with a few minor mods like a better air filter is match enough for the mHawk - we've done this side by side. Even there, once the 3.0 gets past the low and mid power bands, it will trounce the mHawk (and the 2.2) at the top end.

4. Clutch - the Mahindra clutch feels much better than the Tata one. It is smoother and softer, though I havent driven enough to comment on the clutch's ability to cope up with the power and torque in sticky situations.

5. Gearbox - the Tata gearbox is much better, even with the notchy 1st gear.

6. Powerband - the mHawk has a more evenly distributed powerband, whereas the 2.2 VTT has too much torque low down making the first gear useless for more than a couple of seconds. It launches the 2 tonner quite spectacularly if you want it to, but the power trails off towards the end of the rev band. You feel this more if you own a 3.0, because that is when that engine really wakes up. I think Tata have tried to overcompensate for the 3.0's initial inertia with the 2.2, putting too much into the launch.

7. Space - We can talk about knee points, elbow points or whatever else, but there's no disputing the fact that the Safari has much more space, ALL AROUND. Show me another vehicle in this priceband and for another 10-15 lakhs more where I can do this with the seat in regular driving position:
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8. Comfort - Initially it seems that the mHawk (and the new CRDes) have come close enough to the Safari in terms of comfort and this is true for good road conditions. However, throw in some bad roads and the Mahindras are definitely more skittlish and bouncy - in the first place you cannot drive confidently over bad roads at speed, one has to slow down.

9. Interiors/Plastics - Plastic quality is equally bad in both vehicles. However, Mahindra has taken some effort to make the cheap plastic look good on the surface and the initial impression (for a guest rider) is better. Tata havent bothered to give any sort of finish to the cheap plastics and so it feels AND looks cheapo. In both vehicles, plastics can squeal and creak if not properly taken care of.

10. Support - Both manufacturers are used to dealing with Taxi/UV/commercial vehicles and their owners than with passenger vehicle owners, though I can see attemtps to change this in the Tata experience every time I give it for service. However, I do see TASCs prominantly in most locations that I have driven through giving the feeling that the network is much more widespread, but that could be nothing more than a feeling as I have not had to look for Mahindra Service Points with a Tata vehicle.


A person who wants to use the vehicle primarily in City would probably be happy enough with an mHawk as it is slightly better refined and the clutch is easier on the calf muscles, plus it has a better turning circle and you dont normally use the middle row for your daily office drive. However, a person with mixed use would be better off in a Safari and a person doing long distance high-speed (in Indian conditions) travel would definitely be better off with the Safari.

Last edited by Steeroid : 17th June 2008 at 11:13.
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:08   #362
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@ adc: i have written what i have experienced buddy. above 110, its obvious that i would be driving in 5th gear and here, the safari does lack refinement. and i dont think this is a defective car! and again, wind noise and tyre noise was definetely a problem. the comment like "throat being pulled out" was a sarcastic comment, please dont take it seriously! its in comparison to the new age CRDi engines being offered by other manufacturers..! this safari was bought just as the 2.2 was launched, i dont know the exact date. from where did you get the price of the 4x4 VLS that you mentioned its a higher price, can you mention the source pls.
and a question to safari owners, does the VTT engine has VGT (variable geometry timing)?
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:08   #363
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Quote:
dadu : Incorrect, In a Scorpio (7 str) if 2 people sit at the back, you have to put the luggage on their laps.
babureddy : Its not just the last row but over all safari has more space.
The Scorp interiors are sheer magic when it comes to interior space. It has disappeared, and nobody knows how.
Quote:
dadu : The keyhole is placed awkwardly, but I have never missed it except in the Demo.
babureddy : Regarding the keyhole, same here initially for few days i had the problem
The (ignition) key socket is something that one gets used to very easily. It is not something that one uses regularly after getting into the car. Even if one stops & restarts the engine often, it is still easy because the key is already in the socket and all one does is to reach for it and turn the key.
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:09   #364
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@ babureddy & dadu: yes, overall the safari has more cabin space than the scorpio but the side seats in the scorpio is more comfortable than the safari, of course if you neglect the bounciness of the car!
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:20   #365
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Why are we getting into all this - Safari VTT vs Scorpio mHawk? I own both - a '98 TCIC Safari and a '04 non-CRDe Scorpio.

I'm happy with both and love them both. No issues at all. Yes, on a long distance, the Safari is more relaxing.

Oh boy, did I start the debate again??

If and when I change my current rides, it will again be a Safari and a Scorpio. On a personal note would prefer a 3.0L DICOR when I change.. I'm a bit wary of vehicles with too much electronics (read sensors) thrown in. They at times malfunction and difficult to locate/rectify when stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Last edited by gd1418 : 17th June 2008 at 11:23.
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:23   #366
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hey GD, why not the VTT?
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:24   #367
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I love big/huge diesels The distinct thump - thump makes the adrenalin rush. Off late I haven't undertaken a train journey for long. But when as a kid used to, then at junctions would rush to the engine to hear that distinct idle...

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
hey GD, why not the VTT?

Last edited by gd1418 : 17th June 2008 at 11:27.
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:40   #368
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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
I love big/huge diesels The distinct thump - thump makes the adrenalin rush. Off late I haven't undertaken a train journey for long. But when as a kid used to, then at junctions would rush to the engine to hear that distinct idle...
Kyon? Behnji wont let you travel on Public Transportation?
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Old 17th June 2008, 11:40   #369
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We are talking about SUV's here and not sedan's or hatchback, SUV's are made to be rugged and not for speed.

They are meant to be comfortable under stress and Off-roading and not jumping jacks.

Safari 2.2 was launched in first week of Oct07, deliveries came in by the middle of the month.

VTT is nothing but Variable Turbine technology for the Turbo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
this safari was bought just as the 2.2 was launched, i dont know the exact date. from where did you get the price of the 4x4 VLS that you mentioned its a higher price, can you mention the source pls.
and a question to safari owners, does the VTT engine has VGT (variable geometry timing)?
Steeroid has summed it up pretty well here and I agree with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post

A person who wants to use the vehicle primarily in City would probably be happy enough with an mHawk as it is slightly better refined and the clutch is easier on the calf muscles, plus it has a better turning circle and you dont normally use the middle row for your daily office drive. However, a person with mixed use would be better off in a Safari and a person doing long distance high-speed (in Indian conditions) travel would definitely be better off with the Safari.
Are we talking about seat comfort while stationary ???.

I thought we were talking about comfort while the vehicle was being driven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
@ babureddy & dadu: yes, overall the safari has more cabin space than the scorpio but the side seats in the scorpio is more comfortable than the safari, of course if you neglect the bounciness of the car!
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:08   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
We are talking about SUV's here and not sedan's or hatchback,
Actually, we're talking about imaginary stuff here. The chap has compared his mHawk to his brother's 10-month-old 2.2 VTT. There IS no 10-month-old 2.2 VTT unless he bought a pre-production model off Tata.
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:21   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
The Scorp interiors are sheer magic when it comes to interior space. It has disappeared, and nobody knows how.
True, Mahindra messed up interior space big time, the third row is a complete waste unless you have midget friends. I would not even put kids in the third row as the standard AC will not even cool them and the roof mounted one is an optional extra.

The only positives the Scorpio had for me were :
  • the engine but the Safari appears to be ok on the engine front now. The early diesel was a total pig of a unit but we are not talking about that so I will say no more.
  • the shape of the Safari is 10 years out of date and that seriously lets it down. The Scorpio still looks butch and relatively fresh in the looks department (from the side and front). The rear of the Scorpio is another matter as it looks like a rushed design job.
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:27   #372
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Maybe he exaggerated a little. Maybe he meant 7 months (assuming that his brother got the Safari soon after its launch). Raj, stop being a bad bad boy and spill the beans! Were you lying?
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:35   #373
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Isn't train a public transportation?

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Kyon? Behnji wont let you travel on Public Transportation?
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:51   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
finally i am back to mumbai in the safari 2.2, the drive was good. finally i can comment that the seats are comfortable. i dint notice the extra space though, probably its because i was driving and not in the back seat. but the safari's dash is huge compared to the scorpio's. looks good, wish the buttons were of better quality.
departed from pune by 7 pm and reached the outskirts of pune by 7.45 and by that time it was dark. time to switch on the headlights and suprise! it flickers once and switches off. thankfully the fog lights are working! i call up my bro to give him a piece of mind and he says "when i was driving, there wasnt any fault" (ya, its my mistake now!)
anyways, got it checked by a garage and it turned out to be a loose connection. was solved in 15 mins flat! meanwhile me n my parents could have some refreshments! ........
, i asked my bro whether he wanted his safari back and he said "let me have the hawk for 1 more day"...! that is a big compliment (for me atleast!) so i am off to gujrat tomorrow in the VTT...!
is it possible for you to post some PIC's of the VTT you are driving......
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:54   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Lets try and put it this way (disclaimer: I have driven the mHawk quite extensively - my friend's taxi business has one for the Hotel - Airport shuttle run):
I guess your friend is Stupid to use a MHawk for taxi business he should have bought an LX Safari instead, for a shuttle service he would need space to shove passengers + luggage etc etc.

for you all scorpios are taxis - chillax!!
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