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Old 27th December 2007, 21:28   #226
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Dont worry pretty soon when this Butt becomes common place someones going to do a sub-dued inverted central crease to attract our lakhs on.
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Old 27th December 2007, 21:39   #227
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The Swift sedan looks horrible, plainly because the Swift front looks too out of place on the Sedan.

Nice post ram
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Old 27th December 2007, 21:46   #228
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Exclamation M-series or G-series?

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Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
yes, its 100% confirmed. M series 1.3 litre!
Buddy, ACI states that its the same G-series one as in the hatchback. Are you sure?

I'm sorry, had to ask this one, since I am confused after reading ACI.
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Old 27th December 2007, 22:21   #229
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Originally Posted by ram View Post
Here's my drawing of the butt ugly future.

..and to imagine that some consumers will actually find this b(ea)utiful and shell out their lakhs for it.
Is it so hard to imagine? For the majority, Baleno has the worst rear among sedans, yet how many put their money on it?

Just mentioning because, from the several swift sedan threads, seems like you are trying hard to express your hatred for the Swift sedan. You might just be surprised by the way it sells.

By the way, Swift rear was also one of its weakest points.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 27th December 2007 at 22:25.
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Old 27th December 2007, 22:27   #230
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For the majority, Baleno has the worst rear among sedans, yet how many put their money on it?
And that includes Mr. Ram.
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Old 27th December 2007, 22:38   #231
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And that includes Mr. Ram.
I am a part of that group that thinks Baleno to be good-looking. It is closest one can get to the looks of the Imprezza in India.
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Old 27th December 2007, 22:43   #232
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
By the way, Swift rear was also one of its weakest points.
But it is still considered better than baleno rear end!
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Old 29th December 2007, 10:07   #233
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
...Swift... You might just be surprised by the way it sells.
Let's not get carried away by the concept of "Best seller" !
Do we buy a clothing or shoe size or type, just because that size or type sells the best?
A favorite example: Lifebuoy's red carbolic acid (phenol) soap is still the best selling cheap soap in the country.
Knowing the strong allergen that phenol is, would we bathe with Lifebuoy?
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Old 29th December 2007, 10:16   #234
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Default Baleno tail design

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
For the majority, Baleno has the worst rear among sedans, yet how many put their money on it?
And that includes Mr. Ram.
A lot got said. Friends, let me share some thoughts about Baleno's rear design.

Four Questions:

1) Why was the Baleno designed with a flat cutoff tail surface.
2) Did any other design have this flat cutoff look?
3) Why are the taillight clusters large enough to protrude inwards, the way they do?
4) It nicely enhances trunk space.

1) Why was the Baleno designed with a flat cutoff tail surface.
The flat tail surface is a Kamm design -- based on the research of the German aerodynamicist Wunibald Kamm. Herr Kamm showed that a better drag-reducing tail end design for a car is one that tapers and is then cut off abruptly. The cut-off should occur where the cross sectional area is approximately 50% of the car's maximum cross-section.

Counter-intuitively, a teardrop aerodynamic shape that tapers smoothly to a point is not optimal. It leads to surface drag which disappears when the tail is cutoff.
So there is a very good reason for the flat cutoff Baleno tail being designed the way it is.

2) Did any other design have this flat cutoff look?
Yes, the Suzuki Baleno's rounded haunches, flat tail surface and the taillight cluster seems to be a variation of the design of the tail of the 4th generation Chevrolet Camaro.






2) Why are the taillight clusters large enough to protrude inwards, the way they do?
For good reason. Unlike some other cheap-looks-high-price cars, the Baleno is a Euro design with provision for foglamps.
According to European ECE Regulation 38, SAE J1319, vehicles must be equipped with one or two bright red "rear fog lamps/fog taillamps".
These are switched on manually by the driver, when visibility is poor, so that the vehicle is conspicuously visible from the rear.
Like a brake lamp., the brightness of a rear fog lamp must be over 150 candelas but no more than 300 candelas.
US law does not require rear fog lamps, so Balenos exported to USA had the rear fog lamp wired to the brake lamp circuit.

Cheaper cars have only one rear fog lamp instead of two. The cut-cost design uses a reversing lamp position on one side, as a red fog lamp on the other side. How ugly!
There are lots of these asymmetric tail lamp designs in India, despite their inflated prices.
Not the Baleno -- it had symmetric rear clusters with separate tail-light, brake-light, turn-signal-light, reverse-light and fog-light (the latter present but not wired in the Maruti offering).

To ensure rear fog lamps are not mistaken as brake lamps, ECE Regulations require a minimum separation of 100 mm between adjacent illuminated edges of brake lamps and rear fog lamps. That is why the Baleno rear cluster is as below.



4) It nicely enhances trunk space.
It would have suited the taste of some of our friends, were the tail design rounded and the tailclusters mounted wraparound, partly facing the rear and partly the sides, like in a Ford Fiesta. But, for a given length of car, this would have shrunk the dikky lid like the Fiesta not to mention violating the Kamm profile. That would have compromised both trunk space and convenience of access to the trunk space.

To sum up, I am glad the Baleno rear is the way it is. When you come to understand the design intellect that went into designing it that way, it actually looks perfect!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
I am a part of that group that thinks Baleno to be good-looking. It is closest one can get to the looks of the Imprezza in India.
Many Team-BHPians and myself second you strongly on that, @1100D !

Ram
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Old 29th December 2007, 11:01   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram;670706
[B
2) Did any other design have this flat cutoff look?
[/b]Yes, the Suzuki Baleno's rounded haunches, flat tail surface and the taillight cluster seems to be a variation of the design of the tail of the 4th generation Chevrolet Camaro.







To be very honest, I don't see ,much similarity between the rear ends of the Camaro and the Baleno. I thought we were talking about looks here.The camaro's rear looks quite good in comparison to the Baleno's. Frankly, I fond the Baleno to be a fine looking car except from the rear.


Giving reasons for the Baleno's rear design and saying that it's pretty good is pointless. I'm sure the designers of the Swift sedan's rear can give you a hundred reasons as to why it looks so. Will you be satisfied with its looks then??
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Old 29th December 2007, 11:42   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
2) Did any other design have this flat cutoff look?
Yes, the Suzuki Baleno's rounded haunches, flat tail surface and the taillight cluster seems to be a variation of the design of the tail of the 4th generation Chevrolet Camaro.
As burnt has mentioned before me, the looks cant be compared. Sorry, I don't find any similarity, but that one looks good and the other bad.
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Originally Posted by ram View Post
this would have shrunk the dikky lid like the Fiesta not to mention violating the Kamm profile.
kamm design does not specify the length of the dicky lid. All the cars said to be the classic examples of kamm designs dont have dicky lenth at all. For example, the toyota prius.


As fellow member burnt has asked, if the manufacturers give you reason for why the Swift sedan looks the way it is, would you like it?
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Old 29th December 2007, 11:47   #237
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Finally! What about the Swift hatch then? Change of engine, or will it continue to have the same engine?
Expect the Swift to get the M Series soon.
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Old 29th December 2007, 16:49   #238
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Originally Posted by burnt. View Post
To be very honest, I don't see ,much similarity between the rear ends of the Camaro and the Baleno. I thought we were talking about looks here.The camaro's rear looks quite good in comparison to the Baleno's. Frankly, I fond the Baleno to be a fine looking car except from the rear.
Some will never see the similarity, but many will. Oh well, you will need to put on your engineering hat. I will have to elaborate and teach about profiles. Cold logic, as opposed to "My argument is as good as yours" rhetoric! That said, we're all entitled to judge for ourselves, what we like and what we don't. Example: For many people, the rigor of classical music is just meaningless noise until the appreciation matures.

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I'm sure the designers of the Swift sedan's rear can give you a hundred reasons as to why it looks so.
Sure? or is it just a suspicion? Can you share data like I did?

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Will you be satisfied with its looks then??
I'm open to change as I am taught, my friend. Do join me.
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Old 29th December 2007, 22:55   #239
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Expect the Swift to get the M Series soon.
Hey, sorry for the repost. Looks like no one observed my previous post.
ACI says that Swift sedan will have G-series engine, i.e, the same one as in Swift hatch.
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Old 29th December 2007, 23:10   #240
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that is a good point knight...that windsheild now that i notice..looks really ugly.
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