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Old 11th January 2008, 15:45   #481
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Originally Posted by Suryam View Post
I have heard that spare tire would be kept in bonnet. I am wondering that, If head-on collison happens, what is effect(positive-side) of a tire filled air with iron rim( some sort of cruble zones, shock abosrber,etc)

It is mentioned that this meets full frontal crash test and has crumple zones. Also can meet side impact test.
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Old 11th January 2008, 15:46   #482
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Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
It's a little disappointing that people are so cynical about the Nano. So what if only the Base is priced at 1 lakh, ex showroom. So what if the prices will be revised 6 months hence. And will probably cost 1.5 lakh OTR. How does any of this undermine the achievement?
...
Very rightly put and I agree.

Not to hurt anyone, but I feel all these criticism against Nano(in this forum,across media and in India) proves the the famous adage ' Indian Crab mentality' --- always leg pull & don't praise even though there good points.

BTW, in case of Nano's achevement, the acheivement is not only the good, but also is the best for that price in the world for first time to acheive this kind of feat. I feel proud to be Indian for Tata's acheivement.

Even Venerable-Chinese( who frighen all world with thier cheapest stuff, even Koreans/Japanese) could not acheive the the same feat(low cost car) -- Cheapest chinese car is 5000$

Last edited by Suryam : 11th January 2008 at 15:58.
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Old 11th January 2008, 15:54   #483
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Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
It's a little disappointing that people are so cynical about the Nano. So what if only the Base is priced at 1 lakh, ex showroom. So what if the prices will be revised 6 months hence. And will probably cost 1.5 lakh OTR. How does any of this undermine the achievement?
...
Fully agree with you.

Last edited by Zappo : 11th January 2008 at 16:17. Reason: Do not quote a complete message when what just a small part of it can convey your reason to quote just as well.
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Old 11th January 2008, 16:16   #484
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
1) Since they have had to stick to the original-quoted price (even if by choice), inspite of rise in input costs over the years, they might adopt the business model of recovering any loss in margin from sale of spares and maintenance (only for the Nano).
Well, I'm sure you've heard of the concept of economies of scale as well as that of marginal costing? I'm talking about the assembly line per se. You are not really serious about any manufacturer being able to recover losses from each unit sold by the route of after sales service & spares?! Or are you?
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Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
Right now we should just bloat at the fact that this is a world first. And it's Indian. Maybe somebody will do it better. But who started the rat race? TATA did. That is worthy of praise just by itself.
Ported - excellent, very well said, thanks for putting it down on behalf of all those of us who are proud of Tata's achievement

Last edited by suman : 11th January 2008 at 16:24.
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Old 11th January 2008, 17:00   #485
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Yes, that is also my fear. This is India and you just cannot stop Indians from taking this car out on the highway, especially given its expected FE of 20+ km/l. I sincerely hope it is banned from the Mumbai-Pune Expressway. Otherwise there is a real danger of the Mumbai-Pune route being flooded with these cars chugging along at 60-70 kmph.
Just because you are a bigger fish doesn't mean that you can ask the smaller fishes to go and swim in different pond !! If that is the case, I have concerns on why Santros hog the right lane even though they go a lot slower than my Baleno. By the same logic, cant we have the Santro's also banned from the e-way?

Last edited by spadival : 11th January 2008 at 17:02.
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Old 11th January 2008, 17:03   #486
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Hats off to Mr.Tata and his team for this achievement. While only time will tell whether the rear-mount design will pay off, there is no denying that for all intents and purposes - and especially as a means in rural areas with poor public transport - the Nano will be the trend-setter. If Bajaj can produce a car for 1.2 L, why can't Tata, with their head-start, produce one at a cheaper cost?

It's ironic that while the rest of the world takes notice and applauds, there are those among us who feel 'let down' because the 1-Lakh price is only the dealer price and not OTR. Or crib about bad roads and not enough space. That may be a typically Indian reaction, but so's the eventual result - shrugging our shoulders and continue with our routine.

Personally, I am happy that you finally have an alternative for those four-on-a-bike families. The one fear I always have is that some idiot is going to jump in front of me - or anybody else - with his family in tow - the kids do not need to pay for the father's/mother's incompetence!

At the same time, the Nano is not going to be a substitute for the office-goer's bike - the advantage of higher mileage and lower cost will argue this. You are still going to see the same Splendors and Rx and Victors squeezing into invisible gaps. The drivers who use scooters (especially ungeared) however, may consider the Nano quite a good alternative.

Let's face it - no matter how wide you make the roads, or how smooth, the safety of each and every one of us depends on the choices we make, on the control we have over that fatal rush of blood, on that instinct to get to our destination as fast as we can. The Nano might make the roads safer for those who might have fallen victim to the rashness of others, and that should be one more thing Tata can always be proud of.

Granted, Tata's vehicles are not exactly engineering marvels - but then again, neither's Microsoft! They have their bugs, their patchworks... but at the end of the day, there is no denying that they are testament to the Indian's will and ingenuity where the concepts of cheaper and better are concerned.

Once again, on a great achievement, congratulations, Mr.Tata. You've put the followers at the head of the pack with one swift swoop!
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Old 11th January 2008, 17:05   #487
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Originally Posted by suman
Well, I'm sure you've heard of the concept of economies of scale as well as that of marginal costing?
Sure, economy of scale works. But only if there is atleast some margin, however small it is. I am not so sure it would work if someone is selling at a loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman
You are not really serious about any manufacturer being able to recover losses from each unit sold by the route of after sales service & spares?! Or are you?
I dont see why it should not be possible, if some manufacturer intends to go that route.

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Originally Posted by ported_head
I could never live with the guilt should , god forbid, my vehicle be responsible for any untoward incident.
Yes, this should definitely make our roads safer - for the families overloaded on bikes, for the men/women that find it tough to negotiate 2-wheelers in the hell that our city-roads are.

And for all those that talk about its safety, well how safe are the other small cars we have today ? And anyway this is a city runabout, meaning slow speeds - so should be OK I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadival
By the same logic, cant we have the Santro's also banned from the e-way?
Rightly said. I mean, just because you have a slightly bigger car, does not mean, everyone else has to clear off the roads. What if the D-segmenters and above think in this way ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rks
I sincerely hope it is banned from the Mumbai-Pune Expressway. Otherwise there is a real danger of the Mumbai-Pune route being flooded with these cars chugging along at 60-70 kmph.
I have never been on this expressway. What is the speed limit on it ? I am guessing it is 80kmph like other places in India. If so, what is wrong in doing 60-70? They are actually within the law while others are breaking the law.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 11th January 2008 at 17:10.
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Old 11th January 2008, 17:37   #488
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
Well, I'm sure you've heard of the concept of economies of scale as well as that of marginal costing? I'm talking about the assembly line per se.
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Sure, economy of scale works. But only if there is atleast some margin, however small it is. I am not so sure it would work if someone is selling at a loss.
What is the concept of loss? To me, as long as the fixed costs of the assembly line are recovered, thereafter each unit produced will contribute to the overall kitty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
You are not really serious about any manufacturer being able to recover losses from each unit sold by the route of after sales service & spares?! Or are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I dont see why it should not be possible, if some manufacturer intends to go that route.
Just for my understanding, can you give me a practical example of this? Pick up cost of manufacture, selling price & then cost of spares or service & paint the entire picture. I think easier said than done at this price point.
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Old 11th January 2008, 18:03   #489
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Costs are not limited to fixed ones only.

Anyway, since none of us here have an idea about how the car is going to be priced when available for sale, all this is just a hypothetical discussion. I would prefer to wait and see, rather than debate endlessly.
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Old 11th January 2008, 18:28   #490
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Anyway, since none of us here have an idea about how the car is going to be priced when available for sale, all this is just a hypothetical discussion. I would prefer to wait and see, rather than debate endlessly.
Exactly what I was leading up to. When it comes to loose statements, we are fine to go ahead & make them but if we have to put our money where our mouth is, we talk about "hypothetical discussion" .

The costs that are not "fixed" are known as "variable" & the concept of Marginal costing refers to the additional incremental revenue that each unit generates once the fixed costs (like rent, depreciation etc) are met.

Cheerscheers:
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Old 11th January 2008, 18:48   #491
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Please do not compare Auto's to the 1 lakh car. An Auto rickshaw is a MUV. It can carry 8 people + big luggage. Tata one lakh car can squeeze in max 5 and a small suitcase
With minor modifications, auto rickshaws can carry 15 people at a time.
Also an auto is a convertible, and convertible versions of cars are more expensive.

LOL. Gud one!! I have personally traveled with 8 other people in an auto... 3 in the front (incl. the driver), 4 at the back and two more on a plank attached to the central rod (B Pillar?) on either side. Hats off to the 7.5bhp Bajaj chetak engine which drags this kind of a load day in and day out over years!!!

Sorry for being completely OT though
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Old 11th January 2008, 19:15   #492
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Originally Posted by suman View Post

The costs that are not "fixed" are known as "variable" & the concept of Marginal costing refers to the additional incremental revenue that each unit generates once the fixed costs (like rent, depreciation etc) are met.

Cheerscheers:

great man. Thanks suman, for that class in economics or was it trigonometry ?

cheers cheers:
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Old 11th January 2008, 19:24   #493
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Originally Posted by suman
Exactly what I was leading up to. When it comes to loose statements, we are fine to go ahead & make them but if we have to put our money where our mouth is, we talk about "hypothetical discussion"
That was not a loose statement, but an educated guess and there is quite some difference between the two. And unless you are having some insider info of the Nano pricing that we are not privy to, then you are also doing what the rest of us are - making a guess.

And I have studied enough of P.D. & C.E. during my Engg. to know about costs and the types thereof. So thanks.
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Old 11th January 2008, 19:52   #494
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Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
It's a little disappointing that people are so cynical about the Nano. So what if only the Base is priced at 1 lakh, ex showroom. So what if the prices will be revised 6 months hence. And will probably cost 1.5 lakh OTR. How does any of this undermine the achievement?

Please take note of the following things that cost a lakh of rupees:
* Digital SLR camers
* Swanky Home Theatre system
* Plasma TV
* Modular kitchen, just about.

Out of all of the above, the only thing you would be able to fit four people in would be the kitchen. But, I don't think it has passed any frontal impact tests or for that matter any mobility tests either. I agree that a camera or a plasma TV that costs a lakh would be at the higher end of the spectrum, better than rivals. My argument is to point out that, one lakh buys jack these days.

It definitely won't buy you Rudra's camera or his Mac. Though his camera with his ultra wide lenses and what not will fit more than 5 people for sure, not sure it survives frontal impact though.

I have some experience trying to build a prototype, with minimal outside labour, one lakh rupees is still far too less. Built with basic materials, off the shelf, and no guarantee on any of the functions. This is quite nothing short of a transportation revolution. Sure, our infrastructure is already in shambles, but why to blame Tata's car for any of it? Have any of the people who have been bad mouthing after effects on TV all day long, once questioned if a ministerial convoy of 15 cars ever put any extra load on the existing infrastructure?

I think it's fantastic that I don't have to be on the edge of my seat everytime I am driving, and there is bike around my left fender with a family of 4. I could never live with the guilt should , god forbid, my vehicle be responsible for any untoward incident.

For somebody who commented that his tricycle had bigger wheels, I would ask him to rear end a truck at 20 kmph and then see if he still lives to tell the story. Somebody asked for airbags. At a lakh of rupees? My Swift doesn't have them at 5 lakh rupees. Are we downplaying it just for the heck of it? Or is there a reason? The fact that pan wallas can finally talk about a vehicle they might be able to afford, probably justifies the effort on it's own.

Right now we should just bloat at the fact that this is a world first. And it's Indian. Maybe somebody will do it better. But who started the rat race? TATA did. That is worthy of praise just by itself.
ported_head, very well-written post. I really appreciate your effort. I have a macbook pro which just costs over a lac. I could not believe this equation Tata Nano = Macbook Pro! Just by looking at this equation, I can understand how many engineering difficulties they have solved. It must be the best example in the theory of optimization. However, as usual, we continue to criticize just for the sake of leg-pulling. Even though some people will not ride this nano, as it has the cheapest tag attached to it, they will ask for all the facilities like air-bags etc. which even many high-end cars don't provide.

So thank you once more.
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Old 11th January 2008, 20:16   #495
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Ratan Tata, You are real Bharat Ratna ! Your are a true son of the soil !!
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