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Old 13th January 2008, 05:26   #1
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Default Does India need fuel efficiency standards?

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New Delhi, Jan 10: Greenpeace demonstrators’ highlighted the harmful impact of automobile emissions on global environment as the 'Auto Expo 2008' began here today.
The demonstrators staged a peaceful protest outside Pragati Maidan, the venue of the Expo.
They called for mandatory fuel efficiency standards for cars in India.
"We have only eight years to stop climate change. We are campaigning against the emission of harmful gases, and for fuel efficiency. We request the government to come up with a legislation to increase car fuel efficiency. The car industry should also cooperate and accept norms. If China can do it, so can we," said Ruchira Talukda, a Greenpeace demonstrator.
Car makers from across the globe are showcasing their creations at the exhibition in India, which is Asia's third largest automobile market.
Car majors in India are also jostling with each other with their latest variants at the expo.
Over 50 car makers that include the who's who of the automobile world are taking part in the exhibition, which is spread over 70,000 square meters.
About 150,000 auto buffs are expected to visit the show.
Rising incomes and new models are boosting car sales in India where only eight people in every 1,000 own a car, compared to 300-500 in many western countries.
Annual passenger vehicle sales are forecast to double to two million units by 2010. Small cars currently make up nearly two-thirds of the domestic market. Premium cars make up only about three per cent of sales now.
According to experts, by 2050, one in every six cars in the world will be driven by an Indian. (ANI)
Greenpeace demonstrators protest at Delhi’s Auto Expo | Top News

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I was watching a program on CNBC TV 18 on which an environmentalist was talking about how we dont have fuel efficiency standards and how the government really needs to introduce legislation to make sure all cars meet minimum fuel efficiency standards.

Personally I think the Indian car buyer forces manufacturers to make sure all their models are fuel efficient. Do youll think we really need fuel efficiency standards?
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Old 13th January 2008, 06:27   #2
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umm, we won't give a damn. Do we celebrate when our cars give 2-3km a liter more on highways? We just carry on like normal.

Sorry but GPeace is barking up the wrong tree. Mass transit systems are the ONLY key to decongesting our cities and stopping us all from spending hours stuck in jams - a recent study forecasted 62 cr man hours lost a month. Surely 50% of them are only on HCBS!!!!
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Old 13th January 2008, 07:20   #3
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
umm, we won't give a damn. Do we celebrate when our cars give 2-3km a liter more on highways? We just carry on like normal.

Sorry but GPeace is barking up the wrong tree. Mass transit systems are the ONLY key to decongesting our cities and stopping us all from spending hours stuck in jams - a recent study forecasted 62 cr man hours lost a month. Surely 50% of them are only on HCBS!!!!
what is Gpeace and what is hcbs?
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Old 13th January 2008, 07:51   #4
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Originally Posted by rider60 View Post
what is Gpeace and what is hcbs?
Greenpeace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 13th January 2008, 08:16   #5
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
umm, we won't give a damn. Do we celebrate when our cars give 2-3km a liter more on highways? We just carry on like normal.
We (Most team-bhp'ians) may not.

However, majority of the public do celebrate the mileage of their cars, and buy cars mainly considering mileage.
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Old 13th January 2008, 10:31   #6
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Well rules are required to force the public to behave in a certain way.

Like in the US we need these FE rules because otherwise nobody makes FE cars and nobody buys them.

In India, people are naturally conjoos and FE minded and so it may not be required.
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Old 13th January 2008, 11:06   #7
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I feel we already have some emission norms that has to be adhered. I do regular emission tests of my car and bike. When police flags down a vehicle, they will certainly ask for emission certificate and if it is not there/expired, then we need to cough up Rs.100 as fine.

But more and more vehicles are being introduced and will be on road. This means more problems with emissions. Until mass transport system is implemented, and to the desired levels, until then, these kind of agitations will not do any good.
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Old 13th January 2008, 12:17   #8
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We already have emission control laws. PUC certificate is mandatory and is compulsory. Transport vehicles have to be "tested" for fitness every 2 years for first 6 years every one year after that.

Emission control should not be confused with efficiency of fuel usage. An M800 carrying 4 people consumes 18 KMPL fuel and gives 38 BHP (or so). A 43 seater bus carrying 40 people (usually more) consumes 2.5 KMPL fuel (inside the city) / 4.6 KMPL (highway) and gives out 95 BHP power. What mode gives efficient fuel consumption??

But, the "last furlong" problem still remains. Individuals do not just travel from Noida to Paharganj. Or just from Koramangala to Malleshwaram. Or from Andheri (w) to Nariman point. A significant proportion of time is spent in getting to a point where one can embark/disembark onto public transport from the building one actually wants to be.

IF transport planners tackle this "last furlong" issue, a large proportion of people will choose not to go in for personal transport.

What is greenpeace's solution for that?
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Old 13th January 2008, 12:24   #9
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The Indian buyer has already set the FE standard. Would any car without good FE sell in India? Even if the government comes up with a standard, it would be much lower that what cars here already return.
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Old 13th January 2008, 14:25   #10
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I think the Indian car buyer forces manufacturers to make sure all their models are fuel efficient.
LOL! Statement of the month. Well-said and absolutely true.

While FE is more or less taken care of by the market, emissions & safety standards are of a higher priority.
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Old 13th January 2008, 15:41   #11
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I think Greenpeace seems to be getting a bit confused between pureplay FE and pollution. Modern engines are often significantly less polluting with only marginally higher FE (e.g. the old carb engines vs MPFI)

If they are worried about pollution, they should ask for taxation linked to pollution levels for the vehicle, actively encouraging people to pollute less. The problem with this is that in India there is a lack of clear thinking and understanding of pollution caused by modern vehicles . For e.g. diesel vehicles are seem to be more polluting than their petrol counterparts in India whereas in the UK the Swift D attracts lower taxes than the petrol variant because its less polluting

I think a protest demanding higher FE in cars without really understanding the situation and thinking it through clearly is a fairly meaningless gesture
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Old 13th January 2008, 16:02   #12
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. For e.g. diesel vehicles are seem to be more polluting than their petrol counterparts in India whereas in the UK the Swift D attracts lower taxes than the petrol variant because its less polluting
in UK tax is based on the Carbon emission (claimed by manufacture). The new age diesel (CRDI) produce less CO2 compared to their petrol counterparts and offer better mpg(mles per gallon), and that's why diesel outsells petrols in UK (eurpoe too)

I think in india we need to bring the same concept where the tax should be based on the CO2 emission
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Old 13th January 2008, 21:46   #13
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Default its the congestion they need to fix first

It is not adequate to set pollution norms. The Govt has to make sure traffic flows smoothly. Congestion causes lot of pollution. If the traffic flows smoothly it will do two things: improve FE thus reducing pollution per KM travelled and reduces the pollution caused by vehicles waiting in jam situations. All these do not exclude pollution control norms.
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Old 13th January 2008, 22:31   #14
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. With the vehicles moving in 1st gear means more emissions and more noise (in jam situations). If the vehicles moving at constant speed, the pollution will also be less.
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:54   #15
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Default Breaking News !!!

Car firms to reveal fuel efficiency data to govt-India Business-Business-The Times of India
9 Feb 2008, 0225 hrs IST,Nitin Sethi,TNN

NEW DELHI: By the end of this month, the consumer will have scored one small victory. For the first time in India,
car and two-wheeler manufacturers will reveal a closely guarded secret - data on fuel efficiency and greenhouse gas (carbon dixiode) emissions - to the government.

This disclosure comes as part of the process of petroleum ministry's Petroleum Conservation Research Association (PCRA) and the Bureau of Energy Efficiency (BEE) setting fuel-efficiency standards for the automotive industry.

The industry has agreed to share the data with government on February 25 in the third round of meetings. However, sources told TOI that in case the automotive industry is unable to share the data, then the government would go ahead with standards based on data it secures from the market and other government agencies like Indian Institute of Petroleum.

PCRA has come up with some data on its own which explains industry's reluctance so far to share the data.
The data revealed that even while using the same size engines, different car models were giving a wide range of mileage. While sources refused to reveal the models studied, they said that the cars were in the 'small' segment.

The data, presented at the meeting of the committee on fuel-efficiency norms, was a startling revelation of how the norms could force the car manufacturers to employ the best existing technologies to improve their bad performers.

A similar trend was found in two-wheelers as well. The data also found that there was a massive fall in fuel efficiency with increase in vehicle weight towards the high end.

But sources pointed out that industry could improve efficiency even with existing technologies as the modelling showed that a mere 5% reduction of body weight could lead to substantial improvement of mileage in cars.

Based on these leads, PCRA is planning to create a rubric of rules that would force the laggards to catch up or pay for bad mileage. The standards will be mandatory, based on mileage and carbon dioxide emissions and would be technology neutral.
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