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Old 21st February 2008, 23:12   #121
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Originally Posted by dockap View Post
i think this will sell like hot cakes all the 3 models and kill sales of all other muvs+suvs in the 6 to 12 lakh bracket
imagine scorpio charging 11.2 lakhs for the 2.2 hawk when we can get the same engine with better needed features in the sumo grande for 8lakh+( - abs ) like electric orvms
i am sure the mahindras have gone crazy. i think they havent done their homework. 11.2 lacs is not they can sell mhawk with. even if it gets entry in market they wont be able to survive much.
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Old 21st February 2008, 23:33   #122
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no one can kill safari. safari is a symbol of PRESTIGE , PRIDE and POSSESSION. safari is not a ordinary coloured vehicle. The pearl White colour found on safari is not found in any vehicle. Design is old, yet every time u see it on road , moving with a roar u feel a fresh richer safari and u always give it a second look.
Cladding is not that customers look at while buying a SAFARI.

Sumo grande has a potential to drown TAVERA, Scorpio and INNOVA i.e vehicles that are used widely in tourist market. i hope u r getting my point. Sumo grande is an outcome of very stringent and wide market survey done by TATAS.
and SAFARI is not a tourist vehicle. u know the % of safaris uses as tourist vehicles and % of tavera, scorpios and innovas used for tourist purposes.
You still living in the mid 1990s mate ?

The Safari has not been a symbol of Prestige for several years since it began to hit village taxi stands in Punjab. No one I know gives it a second look. Yes they give the Prado, Pajero, Endeavour etc a second look but never the Safari.

The new Sumo is going to bite into the Scorpio, Safari, Tavera and Rhino market. It has the looks, engine and more importantly the right price.

Last edited by bigman : 21st February 2008 at 23:34.
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Old 21st February 2008, 23:37   #123
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You still living in the mid 1990s mate ?

The Safari has not been a symbol of Prestige for several years since it began to hit village taxi stands in Punjab. No one I know gives it a second look. Yes they give the Prado, Pajero, Endeavour etc a second look but never the Safari.

The new Sumo is going to bite into the Scorpio, Safari, Tavera and Rhino market. It has the looks, engine and more importantly the right price.
wow punjab is great ahead in providing luxury TAXIS. please send some punjab taxi drivers in pune. we are bugged off with these autowalas.
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Old 21st February 2008, 23:53   #124
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no one can kill safari. safari is a symbol of PRESTIGE , PRIDE and POSSESSION. safari is not a ordinary coloured vehicle. The pearl White colour found on safari is not found in any vehicle. Design is old, yet every time u see it on road , moving with a roar u feel a fresh richer safari and u always give it a second look.
Cladding is not that customers look at while buying a SAFARI.
Whatever you wrote above is subjective. Most of folks prefer a quartz black safari and i think it looks far better than pearl white. Owning a safari may be prestige issue for some..but not for lots of other folks.

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Sumo grande has a potential to drown TAVERA, Scorpio and INNOVA i.e vehicles that are used widely in tourist market. i hope u r getting my point. Sumo grande is an outcome of very stringent and wide market survey done by TATAS.
and SAFARI is not a tourist vehicle. u know the % of safaris uses as tourist vehicles and % of tavera, scorpios and innovas used for tourist purposes.
I dont think sumo will do anything to Innova...at most it may take away some sales away from E variant, which is preferred by taxis. When Safari and Sumo havent been able to dent family innova sales, then am not sure if sumo will be able to do anything.

Only from taxi perspective - i havent seen any scorpios operating as taxis. So a taxiwalla does not consider scorpio for a taxi purchase. But yes, mahindra has a problem on their hand due to sumo now.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 00:00   #125
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I dont think sumo will do anything to Innova...at most it may take away some sales away from E variant, which is preferred by taxis. When Safari and Sumo havent been able to dent family innova sales, then am not sure if sumo will be able to do anything.
The old Sumo was no match for the Innova in any aspect. The Safari is considered more of a lifestyle vehicle than a family vehicle. It also is not configured to have 3 row front facing seats.
But now, feature on feature, the Grande can compete with the Innova and I think Innova sales would be hit.

You also cannot underestimate the number of Innovas in the Taxi segment. Just stand outside the airport and you will know.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 00:02   #126
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
Whatever you wrote above is subjective. Most of folks prefer a quartz black safari and i think it looks far better than pearl white. Owning a safari may be prestige issue for some..but not for lots of other folks.
i wasn't telling what looks better and what people prefer. i was just pointing out that colours on safari are not ordinary and the Pearl White colour is exceptional and not found on other vehicles. F.Y.I the sales figure of Pearl White Safaris in INDIA and Abroad are more than Quartz Black
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Old 22nd February 2008, 00:16   #127
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
I dont think sumo will do anything to Innova...at most it may take away some sales away from E variant, which is preferred by taxis. When Safari and Sumo havent been able to dent family innova sales, then am not sure if sumo will be able to do anything.
You are probably very correct there. Sumo Grande may not affect the Innova much, maybe barring the E variant of the Innova which is used by the taxi trade as tourist taxis. Although there also, Sumo will have to match the Innova in terms of space and then some more. Afterall Innova taxis come costly and are mainly hired by either the big groups on an outing (with lots of luggage) or else by the call centers (to be used like mini buses, albeit with some luxury element thrown in).

For the regular taxi trade the old Sumo is where the buck will stop. I do not think the Sumo Grande will really be what these guys would like to buy for running around. Its just like you do not find many Turbo Indicas being used by the regular taxi trade as opposed to the evergreen Indicab.

However the Sumo Grande may open up a sub-segment of sorts in the personal cars market. Innova G and V variants are mainly used by 40+ execs, mostly with a chauffer to drive them around. And yet there are a lot many young corporate fellars who cringe at the thought of buying an Innova because of its somewhat fuddy-duddy image. Its this young segment with enough moolah in pocket who may find it more worthwhile to fall for a "spacious and revamped" Sumo Grande. I can easily imagine a 32 years old exec driving a jet black or a ruby red Sumo Grande without any other co-passenger (just like a personal car). I do not see many of them though driving around a longish Innova all by themselves.

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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
Only from taxi perspective - i havent seen any scorpios operating as taxis. So a taxiwalla does not consider scorpio for a taxi purchase. But yes, mahindra has a problem on their hand due to sumo now.
Actually there are many such. Hyderabad for one has a lot of them. I see them everyday. Mostly they have the cab company's name painted on that biggish rear glass. You can see so many of them bearing numbers AP10 TV... That TV part is the AP standard for numbering Tourist Vehicles. They either have a TV or a X in their numbers.

Last edited by Zappo : 22nd February 2008 at 00:17.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 01:01   #128
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You are probably very correct there. Sumo Grande may not affect the Innova much, maybe barring the E variant of the Innova which is used by the taxi trade as tourist taxis. Although there also, Sumo will have to match the Innova in terms of space and then some more. Afterall Innova taxis come costly and are mainly hired by either the big groups on an outing (with lots of luggage) or else by the call centers (to be used like mini buses, albeit with some luxury element thrown in).

For the regular taxi trade the old Sumo is where the buck will stop. I do not think the Sumo Grande will really be what these guys would like to buy for running around. Its just like you do not find many Turbo Indicas being used by the regular taxi trade as opposed to the evergreen Indicab.

However the Sumo Grande may open up a sub-segment of sorts in the personal cars market. Innova G and V variants are mainly used by 40+ execs, mostly with a chauffer to drive them around. And yet there are a lot many young corporate fellars who cringe at the thought of buying an Innova because of its somewhat fuddy-duddy image. Its this young segment with enough moolah in pocket who may find it more worthwhile to fall for a "spacious and revamped" Sumo Grande. I can easily imagine a 32 years old exec driving a jet black or a ruby red Sumo Grande without any other co-passenger (just like a personal car). I do not see many of them though driving around a longish Innova all by themselves.
my distant relatives have a tourist business. they have sumos, taveras and a couple of innovas too. they were about to purchase a new tavera. but they stopped looking at the grande. they had called me up to enquire abt the new sumo grande.
what i could conclude from their talks is that, old sumos are not much preffered by customers for trips as they are not as much comfortable as taveras. there is not much difference in the rates of Tavera and Sumo (old) on basis of per KM. but innova is much costlier than tavera. so majority of people go for tavera for long trips. Some class apart people prefer innova as per their taste. but if the Tourist people want to capture the majority of the customers they can count on Sumo Grande as the rate per Km of sumo grande will be the same as tavera with a minor -/+ . Also grande has the interiors and comforts with a class quality of ride that can appeal the customers who prefer Innova as they will get a good deal without compromising much.
for family purpose might be bigger families and the richer will still prefer the higher end innovas. but youngsters who want a SUV feel and thrill wont go for innova. for them Sumo Grande/ Safari / Scorpio is a better option.

So the conclusion is Sumo Grande will surely cut in the sales of Innova and Scorpios.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 02:11   #129
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wow punjab is great ahead in providing luxury TAXIS. please send some punjab taxi drivers in pune. we are bugged off with these autowalas.
Take them all mate. The Safari taxis are mostly 1st generation that NRIs bought as there was no other decent SUV type vehicle. Then after they had finished their holidays their relatives drove and racked up the miles in. Now the poor thing grace taxi stands. You could probably pick a high mileage one for a lakh or 2.

I know someone who bought one of these and boy was it bad. Must have been the worst maintained Safari ever. Sounded as if a Haryana Roadways bus was coming into the village.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 07:14   #130
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I do think it'll eat into the Innova sales a bit - I for one have looked at the latter a bunch of times, but always deferred the decision for aesthetic and cost reasons.

Not that the Grande is the best-ever looker (still like the safari more), but its less offensive than the Innova - almost handsome (have to see one in the flesh before taking a stand, really). Given the Safari gives people 11-14kmpl, this should do at least as well on that front. It also represents terrific value for money - spacious, loaded with features and if the interiors are even half as decent as they looked in the pics - they've got a winner.

I can assure a lot of Indians with 5+ families looking for larger-than-sedan options will surely put this somewhere near the top of their options. It pretty much costs less than most good C segment diesels!

Of course, one will have to wait for a few reviews - esp wrt the last seat comfort over iffy roads, and handling - before one decides. Though I hardly expect it behave as well as my es100 shod 7 year old ohc1.3 does
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Old 22nd February 2008, 07:24   #131
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Will the Sumo Grande kill the Scorpio? If interior space is anything to go by, yes. If driving is anything to go by, it'll also kill 10 times the number of people killed in Scorpio accidents.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 07:49   #132
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I wonder why so many people are concerned with a taxi image of any vehicle.

Even a Benz is used as a taxi(err luxury taxi), so does it mean that one should not buy a benz.
A lot of individuals buy a a vehicle for image & prestige, nothing wrong with that.
But a whole lot of people buy a vehicle for their own practical reasons.
What remains of ones image and prestige when one finds his private benz next to a taxi benz at a signal or airport parking lot.

A taxi classification does not (or rather, should not) have much weight in a buying decision...
For those who are hell bent on not buying a taxi image vehicle....
every vehicle in India at some point somewhere in the country finds favour as a taxi... in one form or the other.
MAybe buy a Laam-bhor-ghini.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 08:38   #133
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Will the Sumo Grande kill the Scorpio? If interior space is anything to go by, yes. If driving is anything to go by, it'll also kill 10 times the number of people killed in Scorpio accidents.
Bingo Aditya! This is exactly what I was thinking last evening. I've said this before & I'll say it again - 120 bhp is way way too much for the cabbies (whatever numbers filter down to the cab segment that is). I think we'll soon see another thread -

"Why most Sumo Grandes are driven rashly"

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Old 22nd February 2008, 10:11   #134
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Bingo Aditya! This is exactly what I was thinking last evening. I've said this before & I'll say it again - 120 bhp is way way too much for the cabbies (whatever numbers filter down to the cab segment that is). I think we'll soon see another thread -

"Why most Sumo Grandes are driven rashly"

I dont think we will see many in the Taxi segment, Taxi segments need something which can be fixed by Local Garage's and also the Cost of Service / Maintainence needs to be at the minimum. Consider that fact that none of the electronic's are covered under the extended warranty (remember its year or miles warranty) And the number of Miles a Taxi puts up, the warranty would be over in say a year or 18 months (75k KM) ?? . Btw the TATA warranty terms are different for the Taxi Segment .... (I need to confirm the details).

The last time i checked, I couldnt find the Safari's Brake Pads (the one which fits the ventilated disc's upfront, Grande has em too) in the Market and had to buy it from TASS @ 5K (Rs) For a Taxi this would be a qaurterly or every 2 months expense the way they are driven .
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Old 22nd February 2008, 11:11   #135
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The more number of a certain vehcile you see as a taxi talks about the low running cost and the realiability of the vehicle. So, Indica's / Sumo's / Amby's as taxi for a common man talks a lot about them.

Innova, Safari, Scorpio, etc as taxi's are meant for those who are having some money to burn (if not always, atleast for that trip!).

if the maintanence cost is high for Grande, then I think we might not see too many of them on the road as a taxi.
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