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Old 19th February 2008, 15:32   #136
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
IMO its absurd to beleive a manufacturer who has never ever cared about safety standards in their products!
Swift, SX4 and GV are the modern launches of Maruti. What is wrong with the safety aspect of these cars?

Most other Maruti products are rather outdated, and continue to remain in the market only because of the huge demand they have!
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
For a Palio1.6 you pay 4.7 Lacs and you get hatchback with good boot space, sturdy built car, powerful and reliable engine, decent quality of interiors though they are outdated, proven safety for passengers.
Now have we forgotten safety? Where is the option of ABS/airbags? Or atleast an engine immobiliser which is there in the basic Stile 1.1?

Proven safety of passengers? Whats the Euro NCAP rating for the Palio? Just adding thick metal all around only adds to the dead weight of the car, and does not increase safety in any way! In fact, it decreases safety in the event of an impact!

FIAT Albea with airbags scored only 3 star in Euro NCAP ratings. How come the Indian palio with no option of airbag is proven for its safety standards? If by safety, you mean hitting something at 10kmph, palio might hold good by virtue of its thick sheat metal!

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 19th February 2008 at 15:33.
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Old 19th February 2008, 16:13   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Whats the Euro NCAP rating for the Palio?
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
FIAT Albea with airbags scored only 3 star in Euro NCAP ratings.
You've answered it!
You must've already this video as well...


We all know that the Palio is an age old car breathing its last days. It was introduced in 1996. I guess it fares well scoring 3 star in these ratings. Just curious...whats the safety rating for:

01. 800
02. Alto
03. M Van
04. Old Zen
05. 1000/Esteem
06. Wagon R
07. Estillo
08. Baleon: 1.5 if I am not wrong. (the car tested wasn't eqippped with an airbag though)
09. Gypsy
10. Have I missed anything?

Coming to their modern ones:
01. Swift: 4 star
02. SX4: 4 star

Is that quite a performance considering all modern Fiats get 5 stars including
01. 500
02. G Punto
03. Bravo
04. Linea etc

Having thick metal is not for safety but for durability. The earliest Unos running on our roads still feel tightly bound together.

Its a shame that we still don't understand build quality
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Old 19th February 2008, 16:29   #138
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Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
As I told you earlier, I agree with older cars. But see what people have done! Swift VXi is best selling when we have the ZXi (No ZDi variant at all :( ). I would blame the aam junta's ignorance here rather than blaming Maruti. They are only selling what people want to buy.
Same here in FIAT case also. When they provided no one opted for them. Why blame FIAT then? And how many guys in this forum are owning ABS/Air bag ed Swift cars?

-BSR
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Old 19th February 2008, 18:58   #139
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Why dont Indian govt makes safety rating compulsory?? At least we would get few good and safe cars...
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Old 19th February 2008, 19:08   #140
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Swift, SX4 and GV are the modern launches of Maruti. What is wrong with the safety aspect of these cars?

Most other Maruti products are rather outdated, and continue to remain in the market only because of the huge demand they have!
Would you trade Safety for Demand?

Suzuki Swift & Suzuki SX4 have NCAP ratings! Fair Enough!

What is the NCAP rating for Maruti Suzuki Swift and Maruti Suzuki SX4? Have you got any data. Can you find the rating from the MSIL atleast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Now have we forgotten safety? Where is the option of ABS/airbags? Or atleast an engine immobiliser which is there in the basic Stile 1.1?

Proven safety of passengers? Whats the Euro NCAP rating for the Palio? Just adding thick metal all around only adds to the dead weight of the car, and does not increase safety in any way! In fact, it decreases safety in the event of an impact!

FIAT Albea with airbags scored only 3 star in Euro NCAP ratings. How come the Indian palio with no option of airbag is proven for its safety standards? If by safety, you mean hitting something at 10kmph, palio might hold good by virtue of its thick sheat metal!
Friend, the NCAP rating of the Palio/Abarth you are talking about was acheived in the 90s. And the new Fiats are all clearing the 5 Star NCAPs. And the Swift NCAP is not a MSIL Swift rating. And Fiat has produced their cars in India which is of universal quality and did not sacrifice any part of the car's safety. If Fiat had handled the same strategy as of MSIL there would be only a few people who would talk about Fiat. The quality is there from Fiat for generations.

I am not just talking about sheet of metal dude!

And understand if its just ABS/EBD/Airbags that would be enough to satisfy safety standards most manufacturers would start building cars with Fibre/Plastic body and not the metal ones! Its also the sheet of metal around the car which takes the impact and a part of a Car's crumple zone!

This mentality of the Indian customers have been putting Maruti on the pole postition on their annual Sales margins. I beleive its not going to stay like this for too long and we get to drive better cars with better safety and quality!

Drive Safe!
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Old 19th February 2008, 19:18   #141
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A point to ponder will be the validity of Euro NCAP ratings of the cars in Europe to the same cars in India. Most of the manufacturers will "alter" the quality of cars to suit Indian conditions and I think Suzuki is doing the same. If I am not wrong, Fiat is also doing something similar. For your information, Brazilian Punto is different as compared to European Punto. Whether the difference is for good, I have no idea. And, India is destined to get Brazilian Punto with a shortened rear to meet the 4m restrictions. So, if European Punto gets a 5 Euro NCAP rating, it does not mean anything here. There is a lot altered for Indian conditions. So, as someone suggested, it will be great if some independent agency like Euro NCAP measures security ratings in India and publishes them for all the models sold here.
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Old 19th February 2008, 19:36   #142
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Originally Posted by sushanthr77 View Post
Have I missed anything?
As I've said- all of them are outdated, and are in the market only because of demand! Whether they deserve to sell or not, most propably not!

But surprisingly, these maruti's feel better put together than the modern ones!
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
If Fiat had handled the same strategy as of MSIL there would be only a few people who would talk about Fiat.
There is only a few to talk about FIAT!
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Old 19th February 2008, 19:51   #143
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There is only a few to talk about FIAT!
He meant had if Fiat made tinny cars like MUL, there would been very few enthusiasts for Fiat in India!
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Old 19th February 2008, 22:07   #144
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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
He meant had if Fiat made tinny cars like MUL, there would been very few enthusiasts for Fiat in India!
I doubt if there are even a little more than a few to talk about FIAT even though they haven't launched the tiny MSIL Like cars.. Dont you think so..?
There is only FIAT to blame for it.. What I genuinely feel is that all FIAT brains are in designing the good quality engines & Designing good cars. There aren't (weren't) any brains assigned for studying the customer requirements.

There are many cars which are low on FE but still managed to sell.. Hyundai sold quite a few Santro's which gave lower FE Compared to its competing MSIL models (Wagon R & Zen).. Santro's were even priced higher... which is thanks to the marketing & A.S.S. department...
Indica petrol is selling good mainly for its pricing & marketing...
Even after FIAT has reduced its price, we haven't seen the marketing improve.. Frankly, I haven't seen a single Advertisement on TV for Palio Stile & its price cuts.
Unless they sell good numbers, I dont see their A.S.S. improving, nor its spares cost.

They cant expect customers to find them.. They need to find some desperately...


Maybe, for India, They still think that FIAT is the only car manufacturer offering a car.. They need to come out of the FIAT 1100d days.. high time..
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Old 19th February 2008, 23:50   #145
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Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
Same here in FIAT case also. When they provided no one opted for them. Why blame FIAT then? And how many guys in this forum are owning ABS/Air bag ed Swift cars?

-BSR
Dude! I said this when someone said that most Maruti's are not safe. Can you explain how does this apply to fiat?
Now that the topic has come up, how come FIAT has missed the airbags and ABS? Maruti is atleast providing as an option(SX4, Swift, WagonR, Estilo, GV). Whether aam junta buys it or not, Maruti cannot be blamed.
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Old 19th February 2008, 23:55   #146
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Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
Dude! I said this when someone said that most Maruti's are not safe. Can you explain how does this apply to fiat?
Now that the topic has come up, how come FIAT has missed the airbags and ABS?
Pal, it was Fiat which first offered ABS and Airbags in India way back in 2002 in Palio 1.6 GTX SP model, but due to poor sales, this Special version was discontinued!
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Old 20th February 2008, 00:04   #147
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Pal, it was Fiat which first offered ABS and Airbags in India way back in 2002 in Palio 1.6 GTX SP model, but due to poor sales, this Special version was discontinued!
Ya, I'm aware of this and I appreciate it! But its surprising that they missed it on the Stile. Even on the cars available, less than 10% of the people buy it. People interested should have an option.

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Old 20th February 2008, 00:38   #148
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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Pal, it was Fiat which first offered ABS and Airbags in India way back in 2002 in Palio 1.6 GTX SP model, but due to poor sales, this Special version was discontinued!
Prospective Stile 1.6 customers will feel a lot safer knowing that Palio once had safety features like ABS& airbags. Similarly, they can also feel happy that lower 1.1s get engine immobiliser for safety.

I guess these also form part of - "Fiat has produced their cars in India which is of universal quality and did not sacrifice any part of the car's safety."
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
And Fiat has produced their cars in India which is of universal quality and did not sacrifice any part of the car's safety.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 20th February 2008 at 00:53.
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Old 20th February 2008, 00:58   #149
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He meant had if Fiat made tinny cars like MUL, there would been very few enthusiasts for Fiat in India!
So, where are they all gone now???? Yes, the so called enthusiasts! It seems no body buys them any longer.
I think they should get their together, start working for FiAT in India and help them launch all the promised cars in the market. Many goodwishers of FiAT I know have turned old. Some are now driving Swift DDiS. The only relief is that FiAT was involved in designing the engine doing duty in the car.
Atleast they should all buy their cars and help FiAT financially so that FiAT can have a good dealership network themselves offering reliable after sales service etc... Now, many blame Tata for the step mother treatment.

Come on! These are not some valid excuses for a good car company. Surely, FiAT and french have to get their acts right in our country. If the Japanese, Germans and Koreans got it right, what is stopping them from doing the same???
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Old 20th February 2008, 01:16   #150
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The debate goes on..........!

Mods: Time to close this thread!
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